Challenges of learning the notes on the fretboard

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RaeRose	Challenges of learning the notes on the fretboard	Lead	[-]
(12/15/09 12:45 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None Having picked up the guitar again after a very long hiatus - like, twenty five years - I am determined this time around to learn the notes on the fretboard. When I was young, I played by ear and tab, and it generally helped that I had ten years of piano lessons and then did a music minor in college because I developed a pretty good ear. But now, I want to be able to translate my musical knowledge to the guitar, so I'm learning my way around the fretboard. It is very tedious. No teachers within any reasonable distance, so I got myself the Mel Bay and Hal Leonard course books and am playing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star and the like. I'm finding in some ways that my ability to read music is helpful - I don't need to pay much attention to any of the instructions on notation - whole notes, quarter notes, rests, the whole notation shebang, because I already know that backwards and forwards. I sight read pretty fluently. But in other ways, it's kind of making it harder. I'm trying to stop playing by ear and instead make a connection between THIS fret is a D and THIS is an F, etc. If I am at all familiar with the lesson song, I can kind of "ear play" it once I know the starting note and I lose the connections. I find the connection between fret and note is best made if it's a song I'm NOT familiar with. And those are few and far between in the courses. I'm trying to SAY the name of the note as I play it. That's somewhat helpful. I've also tried playing the lesson songs backwards, so I had to connect fret to note and couldn't just "ear" my way through. Any other suggestions? I really feel that if I am willing to devote the time necessary (months, I'm thinking) to thoroughly learn the fretboard, it will open up a whole world of possibilities for me. Rae Last Edited By: RaeRose 12/15/09 1:03 PM. Edited 1 time.
Ted Hutson		#1	[-]
(12/15/09 1:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Do let us know how that approach works. I've been playing fingerstyle guitar for about 23 years, and I've never learned to read on guitar like I used to on clarinet, but I can spell. I did have some Mel Bay beginner books early on. I looked through them, my eyes glazed over, and I went out and bought Ralph Denyer's Guitar Handbook. '56 000-21, quarter. Willi's bridge thread should be a sticky. My show&ask: '27 00-28, '31 OM-18.
RevGeo.stefangrossmans...		#2	[-]
(12/16/09 10:26 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Rae, Learning all the notes on the neck can indeed be tedious. It is a matter of rote memorization. Sometimes I tell my students 'I wish I could put my hand on your head and say "You now know the notes"..', but that doesn't work. One approach is to do it one string at a time. Start on the low E string and play the first fret and say 'F'. Go up two frets and say 'G'. Continue in whole steps (two fret intervals) If your guitar has fret markers on the 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th and 12th frets you can learn the whole notes by using the markers. Just remember the old rule about no flat or sharp between B&C and E&F. That is why the first fret on the E strings are F, while the first fret on the 5th string is A#, 4th string D# etc. So, concentrate on the 6th - low E - string and memorize the whole notes - 1st - F, 3rd - G, 5th - A, 7th - B, 8th - C (there's that half step rule!), 10th - D, 12th - E(octave, right?). Do this on every string. It's no fun, but there ain't no way around it. Hope this helps some. Rev George And each wished he could pick a guitar, because it is a gracious thing. John Steinbeck
Buck49		#3	[-]
(12/16/09 12:02 PM) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	As the good Rev says, spend a little time each day playing scales...in all the keys...and speak (or sing) the names of the notes as you play them. That's the down and dirty work of learning to play...it's an ugly job but somebody has to do it. It has big payoffs later on. Tom Buck
ipick		#4	[-]
(12/16/09 3:20 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I just came across something yesterday that might help you. It is a lesson on Flatpicking Guitar Magazine's website. http://www.flatpick.com/julylsn07/julylsn.html Even if you don't flatpick the principles will still apply. You can download the lesson as a PDF. Drew
RaeRose		#5	[-]
(12/16/09 3:23 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I'm hoping so, Tom, about the big payoff. And thanks for the suggestions, Rev. The thing that makes learning the fretboard so very different (and actually in some ways more difficult) than learning the keyboard is that the keyboard is just a set of repeating octaves. Once you know what the notes are on one octave, all the others look the same. Not so with the guitar. But of course, there's that many more notes to learn to READ in piano notation. And two hands playing different things at one time. Etc. I'll just keep plugging along. I keep trying to make up little games for myself. It does help to say the names of the notes as I play them. And I printed out that lesson, ipick, and will read through it. Many thanks for the link. Rae Last Edited By: RaeRose 12/16/09 3:51 PM. Edited 2 times.
MrSoul		#6	[-]
(12/16/09 5:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	If I tried to name every note I played, as I played it, I wouldn't be able to do it. Conscious thought whille you are playing is an enemy of good technique. It's like thinking about dinner plans while you are trying to hit a golf ball or thinking about how you balance yourself while riding a two-wheeled bicycle. My advice is that you learn some patterns for major and minor scales, and practice them until you can play them without thinking. Move them up (down the fret) and your already musically educated ears will recognize what key you are in. Once you master these scales, your finger will find the notes before you can tell yourself what note you are looking at in the sheet music. One good method for learning the fretboard is CAGED system. Visit http://www.cyberfret.com/scales/major-caged/index.php Last Edited By: MrSoul 12/17/09 1:34 AM. Edited 1 times.
gitpikker		#7	[-]
(12/16/09 5:57 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Don't the notes on the fretboard repeat from octave to octave?, you only have to adjust for the G to B string thing otherwise the patterns (interval) repeat. The difference is the Piano is "linear" the notes run horizontal, (east to west if you will), whereas on the guitar's fretboard (and other fretted instruments) the notes run both horizontal AND vertical (north and south) which can sometimes be confusing, So as others have said keep playing those scales, starting from different strings go in both directions, get that W-W-H-W-W-W-H pattern ingrained in your finger memory, know what notes the fret markers represent, pretty soon you don't have to think to much on it, which you really can't do to much when playing. good luck keep us posted Mike " 'cuz I'm built for comfort....I ain't built for speed..." Chester Burnett 1938 KAY Archtop, 1970 Guild D-55 BRW, 2008 Martin D-21 Special
rrussell8		#8	[-]
(12/17/09 9:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The way I learned the fretboard was by playing triad chords in a particular key with the root on top (highest note) starting from the lowest position available on the fretboard and working up to the highest, then back down again, then moving to the next key in the circle of fourths and so on through all twelve keys. This is a challenging but effective method. If it gets boring start adding a leading tone above the root between each chord change. If you start in the key of C, the lowest available chord is the Dm on the three bass strings. I work up to an Am on those three strings, then move to the next lowest group of three strings for the Bdim up to the Em, then the next three strings for the F to Am, then the top three for Bdim up to the Dm. This way you learn the notes and the root on top chord positions all over the fretboard. If you get to the stage where you can rip the chords up and down the neck in F# without thinking your mission is complete. (NB I am not quite at that point but I can do it with a little thought.) Then move on to the other two chord voicings, and when you are done there you are ready for the three minor modes. The first steps of this journey are the hardest, but it does get easier and easier. I could only get through two or three keys before my brain started to melt down at first. Happy Trails 1926 0 Uke; 1934 0-18K; 1954 0-15; 1966 00-21; 1975 0-16NY; 1993 HD-28; 1999 Backpacker; 2003 OM-28GE; 2004 FeLiX; 2006 OM-45RR; 2007 LK Smith 00
bryankimsey		#9	[-]
(12/18/09 12:29 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	ipick wrote: I just came across something yesterday that might help you. It is a lesson on Flatpicking Guitar Magazine's website. http://www.flatpick.com/julylsn07/julylsn.html An excellent approach, IMHO. Here's what I have my students do- learn ONE note a day. The notes don't change. Today's F will be an F tomorrow. Six strings, 5 frets = 30 notes. In a month, you can have those down. After than, they'll repeat, with some new notes on the little E 6th-12th frets. In 6 weeks of learning ONE note a day, you can have the whole fingerboard down. Six weeks and you'll have it for a life. With that in mind, I have my kids play the low E string and say out loud: "E". Repeat... "E". Repeat 10x. Tomorrow, remind yourself about that low E string open. 10x. Then finger the 1st fret = F. Repeat 10x. Done. Tomorrow, repeat low E open, 10x. 1st fret = F. 10x. 2nd fret = F#. 10x. By the 4th time, if you're feeling up to the challenge , you can do the low E just once or twice. But if you hesitate, 10x. Continue. Get to work. Bryan Kimsey http://www.bryankimsey.com Coram Deo
Ugly Irish American		#10	[-]
(12/18/09 12:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	That link Bryan showed was great! Actually a lot of that stuff I learned hunting and pecking around on my own. Here are a couple of thoughts. What I tried to do was learn the strings by position... for example, we all know EADGBE. On the third position its G-C-F#-Bb-D-G And knowing the EADGBE pattern works in other places on the board... like the A note on the 6th string, right below it is D on the 5th string... it follows the same pattern... and will work on all the other strings until you get to the B string, and you adjust in your mind for that. Plus knowing the 1st & 6th strings are the always the same note. If you memorized all the notes on the 6th string, you also learned all the notes on the 1st string. Plus learning the different ways to do a major scale in other positions. If I start a scale on the 6th string, I envision a scale like it was a G open scale. If my bass note is on the A string, I envision a scale like an open C (fretting notes that would be open in the open position). Then I verbally call out the notes as I play them... and TRY to memorize 'em with varying degrees of success. Plus knowing what some notes are on the fretboard, I try and do a quick mental calculation... like "if I know the B string 3rd fret is a D.... then two frets up is an E...." One thing I can't do is name notes on the fly.. I have to think of where that note is in relation to notes are that I do know. So... don't know if thats a help or not...

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Challenges of learning the notes on the fretboard

Challenges of learning the notes on the fretboard