The L-00 body style - through the years - The Vintage Corner - Guitars - The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum

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The L-00 body style - through the years

Author	Comment
rob	The L-00 body style - through the years	Lead	[-]
(05/07/09 10:42 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None it's my studied opinion that the 12-fretters, with the bridge more centrally located, tend to sound better, as a group, and, the bracing sizes and shapes changed slightly throughout the run of these L's, too, in effect, changing sound Above is a quote from a current thread about the L-00 / L-0 guitars of the late 30's and what cosmetic differences there were between these models. I found this statement interesting, because the changes in bracing, neck size and shape, and generalities about sound for Martins is pretty well known - but these type changes during the L-00's run (1930 - 194?) are mysterious at best (to me). Could we get some more posts from educated Gibsonites that cover this aspect of the original L-00 shaped flat top guitars? The guys at Gruhn's said these models were pretty inconsistent and tend to be all over the board tone-wise. Is there a way to talk about the sound of these, in general, in correlation with different production periods? Just curious - this type of Gibson is an instrument I'd love to own if I had two guitars...the good ones I've heard have a sound that really gets me... RobM 1919 00-21
onewent		#1	[-]
(05/07/09 12:59 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	well, since it's my quote, I guess I'd better take a stab at an answer ;-) L's have been my favorite guitar for over 20 years, and I've owned and played a lot of them. .. Even sold my '29 000-18 12-fretter and '46 00-18 because of my slant toward the sound and playability of the little Gibsons (I know, you're all thinking 'idiot') ;-) If sound is your biggest criterion for guitar choice, the odds of a finding a good one increase with the purchase of a 12-fretter. The bridge placement and ever so smaller braces, plus the C profile neck, all add up to fine sounding and playing guitars. If you need a 14-fret, the early elevated fingerboard L's have been typically pleasing, but they're pretty rare generally speaking. Otherwise, you'd need to play as many 14-fretters you can get your hands on, or trust the judgement of an on-line or mail order seller. Even though there are slight changes in cosmetics and structure over the run of the L's, those I mentioned above, in my opinion, are the ones that have any significant bearing on sound and playability..the rest are 'window decorations', or so insignificant to have little bearing on playability or sound imho. I should add, though, that there are some maple bodied, and maple/mahogany bodied L's out there, too, and those combos will noticably affect the sound, too. They're pretty rare. Believe me, it's a quest! I've been building up some info on my blog covering the incarnations/variations of these guitars, you're welcome to check it out: http://vintagebluesguitars.com//blog Anyone that would like to submit a unique or variation on these, contact me and I'll check it out.. these models were pretty inconsistent and tend to be all over the board tone-wise And I'd add, that in addition to tone, I've found some of the v-neck mid to late 30's a bit tough to play, and I play Stella's mostly nowadays, so I'm used to a handfull of wood! Not all of them, just some ..it must have been the set up or something..or an acquired taste.. There are a few others on here who suffer the same affliction as I, so I'm sure they'll chime in, too..should make interesting reading! Regards, Tom
sugarinthegourd		#2	[-]
(05/07/09 3:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	As the Gibson "L"s go, I much prefer the 14-fretters to the 12-fretters I've played. The early (non-Hawaiian) 12-fretters were often underbuilt in my experience and so it's rare to find one that doesn't have issues (oversized bridge or bridgeplate, pronouncedly domed top, etc). The Hawaiian conversions I've played just don't have the same funky "thunk" that I love so much in a good L-0/00...they are a bit more sustain-y and less fundamental. (But I haven't played all that many 12-fretters compared to the 14-fretters.) "The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge." - Bertrand Russell "Wisdom, compassion, and courage are the three universally recognized moral qualities of men." - Confucius
Dave in Tejas		#3	[-]
(05/07/09 3:23 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	"suffer an affliction" implies a bad thing, I don't think it's a bad thing at all. I agree that finding a great L-00 is more a quest than a straight forward acquisition. My first L-00, which I did not own, was one of the greatest guitars I've ever played, so my appreciation for them is out of proportion to the difficulty in finding a good one. Not having experienced any number of unspectacular L-0's and L-00's has left me with a memory of a pure tone, unchallenged by reality. And it was a 14 fret model. http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/
tmitchell59		#4	[-]
(05/07/09 4:35 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	If sound is your biggest criterion for guitar choice, the odds of a finding a good one increase with the purchase of a 12-fretter. The bridge placement and ever so smaller braces, plus the C profile neck, all add up to fine sounding and playing guitars. If you need a 14-fret, the early elevated fingerboard L's have been typically pleasing, but they're pretty rare generally speaking. Otherwise, you'd need to play as many 14-fretters you can get your hands on I agree with onewent here. I have been trying to sell his 12 fret L1! Never played it, but know it has to be great. There are two of the 14 fret elevated boards at dealers, one black and white, the other an L1. Documenting the internal builds on these guitars would be quite a task. I would add information if someone wants to collect it. I have collected a good deal of numbers. I focused my efforts on the early 12 fret and early 14 fret guitars. They made a ton of the 14 fret guitars so there are quite a few to be had. Terry
John Thomas		#5	[-]
(05/08/09 7:26 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I've long been afflicted with Gibson L-itis. And, I've never played a 12-fret mahogany L that had all its braces properly glued that I didn't think was wonderful. (1 rosewood L-2 was the exception). And, in truth, I've somehow missed all of these unimpressive 14 fretters. With proper neck sets and braces in place (remember, Only a Gibson Isn't Glued Enough) I've liked 'em all, though I prefer the 12-fretters. Less "thunky," to be sure, but probably my all time favorite fingerpicking Gibsons. I'm at work at documenting the innards of these creatures. I've X-rayed all variants of the early, small bodies -- H braced, A braced, X-braced) and among the larger bodied versions, I've X-rayed 12 and 14 fretters from circa 1930 through the Banner years, though I've not X-rayed one with an elevated fretboard. Any volunteers? Shipping is on me. .... John www.johnthomasguitar.com Please visit www.bannergibsons.com to see what Willi and I are doing!
bassrun		#6	[-]
(05/08/09 9:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I agree with John, and I think he's nailed the reason that some people say that L-00s can be inconsistent--loose glue joints. It makes a big difference when everything's glued up tight. John--I was almost able to help you out in your raised fingerboard quest. I sold mine to a friend in Indiana about 6 months ago. Otherwise, it'd be on its way to you. (Hey, speaking of "on its way," where are my CDs??!! ) --John
John Thomas		#7	[-]
(05/08/09 9:51 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	bassrun wrote: Hey, speaking of "on its way," where are my CDs??!! John, I missed out on 2 opportunities yesterday. Our own Fsharpe/Gerry Clarke stopped by for the evening (What a great guy and great player! Thank you for gracing us with your presence, Gerry.). He had brought his 14 fret, elevated fretboard L-00. But, alas, I failed to get Gerry to stay long enough to accommodate irradiating his guitar. I also told Gerry last evening that I'd burn CDs for you. Alas, once again, I forgot. I have, though, acquired a nice, padded envelope. So, have confidence in me. Hopefully, by Monday. Mea culpas taken care of, back to L-00s. Maybe I'm not sufficiently discriminating or my hearing is less than optimal, but I invariably like any Gibson L flattop thrust into my hands. It's my all-time favorite guitar design. .... John www.johnthomasguitar.com Please visit www.bannergibsons.com to see what Willi and I are doing!
photorc		#8	[-]
(05/08/09 11:21 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Gerry is every bit as delightful as John suggests! I spent a great afternoon here with him on his way south. Just when I had decided a clear preference for 12 fret Gibsons, Gerry's 14 fret turned out to be one of the nicest Gibsons I've played! Crystal clear, and very well balanced. Alas, I let him get away without photographing it. Hopefully, I'll visit John on my way north tomorrow. This is turning out to be a wonderful family! Robert
sugarinthegourd		#9	[-]
(05/09/09 7:44 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Obviously I need to start paying more attention to the 12-fret Gibson Ls again! "The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge." - Bertrand Russell "Wisdom, compassion, and courage are the three universally recognized moral qualities of men." - Confucius
rob		#10	[-]
(05/09/09 12:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Only a Gibson Isn't Glued Enough That is classic. And true - as I've witnessed on a post war SJ that needed about a week's worth of reglue time to be brought back to full life. These L bodies have great character (looks, sound, and feel) and make up an interesting group of variants from the early 30's to the mid 40's. They are just plain cool. I remember seeing Norman Blake around 2001 play a cremona burst 12-fret that had hybrid bracing (at least that's what he told me when I asked him about it - A/X or H/X maybe). He played it to great effect with a pick. I mostly see these fingerpicked - and they are sooo good like that. I'm guessing Gerry can take a pretty good stab at this style. It is great to have friends to pick with and listen to up close. Making music is what it is all about. One of my favorite ways to hear one of these is flat-picked behind a fiddle or fiddle and banjo. They can get your toes to tappin'! (And your mouth to whoopin' and hollerin' if not properly supervised!) I have gotten to hear John (bassrun) on recordings and enjoyed his L flat tops immensly. From Steve Kovacik's photo files...at first I thought that was play wear below the strings, but now I think I see that it is the reflection of his hand on the shiny new finish... RobM 1919 00-21 Last Edited By: rob 05/09/09 12:50 PM. Edited 4 times.
bassrun		#11	[-]
(05/09/09 1:01 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	rob wrote: One of my favorite ways to hear one of these is flat-picked behind a fiddle or fiddle and banjo. They can get your toes to tappin'! (And your mouth to whoopin' and hollerin' if not properly supervised!) I have gotten to hear John (bassrun) on recordings and enjoyed his L flat tops immensly. From Steve Kovacik's photo files...at first I thought that was play wear below the strings, but now I think I see that it is the reflection of his hand on the shiny new finish... Well, thank you, Rob. Yup, I'm mighty partial to those small-bodied Gibsons (though I admit to being in the midst of a fling with my "new" '41 J-35....) I believe that's an L-1 in the vintage photo. Thanks for posting it. I just love seeing old photos of these wonderful instruments back when they were brand spanking new. --John
Guitaropsimath		#12	[-]
(05/10/09 8:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	John Thomas, I have an elevated fretboard 14-fret black & white that I'd like to know more about and will consider sending it to you to look at. Where are you located? I am in the group of L lovers and though I mostly like the Martin sound, the roundness of tone of this guitar is special to me and I've only heard a few guitars with this kind of tone. Doug
John Thomas		#13	[-]
(05/11/09 6:45 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Doug, I'm in Connecticut. Thanks for showing some interest! .... John www.johnthomasguitar.com Please visit www.bannergibsons.com to see what Willi and I are doing!

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The L-00 body style - through the years

The L-00 body style - through the years