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Those of us who are experienced believe that you have an unrealistic idea of what such an instrument is worth. OK, not Hank Risan delusional (read enough posts and you will understant that one) That Willie Nelson owned it does not add the value you think it does. It is not even an accurate reproduction: wrong wood and wrong pickup.

Hehehe.... Well, for "those of you that are experienced," I'd like to submit an application:

I received my first writing contract from the late Marijohn Wilkin in 1971. Played with a few people that are either dead, or have gone into retirement after that, and was picked up by Fred Foster and his publishing group a few years later. Some of the people that are mentioned on this board have done work for me, or I've bought stuff from them. Other's I've heard of, but don't know. I've been in the "Bizness" for 38 years, but not on the boards. I simply don't have time to discuss the minutae, or second guess all the other experts.
Because of being in the performance and writing end of Music for a long time, several years ago I started a music store while continuing my other musical concerns. We sell a ton of guitars, they are our focus. Although we sell the "mass produced" brands, like Alvarez, Ovation, and the ones made by the other two major manufacturers, our focus is Martin, Gibson, Tacoma, and Taylor. A few years ago, I gave the store to my Daughter and Son-in-Law as a wedding present, but it still goes strong.....
If this doesn't qualify me as one of "those of you that are experienced," please let me know what does.... I'll try to achieve legitimacy in my knowledge over the next 38 or so years. :-)

(don't take offense please Mike, I'm really only kidding...... I just thought the line was a little amusing..... Actually, I appreciate your thoughts, but have a very active and imaginative sense of humor.)

Possibly, had Sam's repro of the Prismatone been out at that time - and had Martin used it - things would change.

But wait a minute... above you mention that "It is not even an accurate reproduction: wrong wood and wrong pickup.

Why is one "unaccurate pickup" more accurate than another "unaccurate pickup" that were both made to replicate the sound of the original?

Isn't that like saying that an instrument is made of Brazilian Rosewood that was grown in the Dominican Republic? (That's the way cigar makers market expensive "Cuban seed" cigars).

But you're changing your tune and saying that if Martin had used this unaccurate pickup, rather than that unaccurate pickup, the guitar would be more accurate? You may be right, and you may be 'picking' at a detail that still ignores the fact that this is a guitar made by the most respected guitar company in the world, using the best material that was available at the time of manufacture, as a tribute and replica of probably the most famous acoustic guitar in the world, and was owned, played, and televised being played by that very legend hisownself.

The signatures on the lable seem to indicate that the guitar isn't about the guitar for the guitar's sake. They seem to indicate that this particular run of guitars is about the one being commemorated. This line was about Willie from conception through manufacture.....

Now, lets look at two reasons Martin didn't finish their targeted production of guitars while remembering that rarity usually increases value.

Martin is a "steel string manufacturer." Martin players are hugely country, or bluegrass pickers.
This is a nylon sting guitar, and most country or bluegrass pickers don't quite know how to manage the idiosyncracies of the width of the neck, the action, and the sounds produced. Most of them don't understand that the difference between a steel string and a classical, is similar to the difference between a piano and a harpsichord.

Willie is a very unsual picker. He plays a classical guitar with a pick and his fingers. His rhythm is as unique and odd as his voice. Even most of those ( the other 58) that own the N20WN series guitar probably can't successfully replicate his sound. Most of them are probably not guitar players, but are fans of means. I don't know how many people subscribe to this site, but I'll bet less than 1% could successfully imitate Willies sound, even if they were using the original Trigger and one of Willies 9-Baldwin C1s. Point is, it's a limited market instrument with almost unreachable replication of the original, because (no, not because it's un accurate), of Willie's unique style.

So, to "dyed in the wool" Martin players pretty obviously aren't the market for this Guitar. The only reason I came here to advertise it, is that I thought that maybe someone on here would "get it." They'd recognize the significance of the guitar and it's lineage, rather than it's just an unaccurate and not too valuable copy of a famous guitar. I've looked here hoping to find other N20WNs. If anyone has another, I'm interested.

Rick Turner agreed that, for $20K, it would a) have to be a guitar that Willie played on stage or recorded with and b) it would have to be one of the Brazilian guitars.

I have a lot of respect for Rick and his work, but when Willie and I and my appraiser, were making pretty good money with our guitars, Rick was working in a shop. I'm certainly not taking anything away from him, but remember, Willie *did* record on this guitar (see my previous post about the TV show), he played it on stage (because his daughter Lana, had the real Trigger hidden from some people, who wanted it at the time), but it ain't Brazilian.

Gotta think about a couple of things.

First, Willie is a huge environmentalist, and is concerned just like Chris Martin and a lot of others about the deforestation of Brazilian Rosewood. When Trigger was originally cobbled up, that wasn't an issue, but when this guitar was manufactured it was an issue that is sensitive to lot's of people.

Second, the Prismatone II simply wasn't available for Martin to use one the N20WN project. If a frog had wings........ Ya see, the Prismatone II is also an imitation of the original prismatone. So, both the electronics that Fishman made to reproduce the sound of the original prismatone, and Prismatone II are *both* copies of the original.... Again, why is one "unaccurate pickup" more accurate than another "unaccurate pickup?" Neither are Prismatones..... Remember Ford's LTD II, Mustang II, New Coke, etc?

Can you guess why the Prismatone II was invented? I wonder if Willie wasn't still making such unique music with the original, would a copy ever have been considered, or would it have faded into obscurity like lots of others?

I think we could agree that as good as Rick is, he didn't see this guitar, the provenance, and didn't write the appraisal. So with all due respect, he just ain't qualified to make an accurate statement without accurate information. I'm pretty certain Rick probably calls the appraiser, "Sir." :-) They do know each other.

If Willie retires Trigger and puts a Prismatone II into one of his backup guitars and plays it... $20K could easily be on the conservative side. Trigger, of course cannot be valued while Willie is alive and owns it.

Uh.... you forgot to mention if he also stops traveling on a bus, smoking weed, telling jokes, playing golf and becomes a minister. :-D

I bought Jethro Burns's Flatiron octave mandolin after he died with a letter from his brother-in-law (Chet Atkins) verifying its provenance. I paid Gruhn $500 in 1989, sold it 20 years later for less than double to a dealer who listed it for $1,495 when it sold. Has it been his A-5, it would have been worth a lot more -- but it wasn't. He had three or four signature Washburn mandolins and those sold for $2200 each. Had Mr. Burns been alive when those mandolins were sold, I doubt they would have sold for that.

And I bought a Labrador Retriever. It had registration papers, but not a pedigree. I bought it from a famous CCM artist that had a litter of pups. (Heck, at least my N20WN has a pedigree). And that makes about as much sense as comparing the value of a mandolin that would have been worth more if it had been something else, to the value of a guitar. (Sorry, again just my strange sense of humor. I'm not meaning to argue. I just know somethings not being understood here). It can't be understood until someone makes an offer. When they see the whole picture, and only they will, they'll understand.


Are any of James Taylor's or Paul Simon's Yamaha guitars worth $20,000? JT's Taylors or PS's EIR D-35S or even the BRW D12-35 used to record "Hazy Shade of Winter"? I doubt it. Tony Rice's Ovation? Yea, right. I just mentioned guitars that these artists played on stage. We want the "Fire and Rain" guitar (D-18?), the "Mrs Robinson" Guild, TR's / Clarence White's D-28 -- those three guitars will fetch serious money if/when they come on the market. Even Eric's guitars have to have been played, not just owned by him to warrant the prices they command. We want Trigger. Maybe some country fan will give you $20K and prove me wrong. I am quite ok with that.

I'm not sure, but if I obtain one of the one's you mention, I'll let you know. I do have a strat that was owned by Jeff Beck, and a Bass that was played by Tal Wilkenfeld..... They're not for sale.

The original Trigger will never be sold, I'm sure about that. The closest most will ever get to it is when it reaches a museum. Most likely either in Nazareth, or the CM Hall of Fame. If nothing else, Lana will probably get it.

BTW..... Thanks for your being okay should anyone else be willing to meet my price. I appreciate that. LoL

Really Mike, I'm not meaning to be argumentative. I just think the attention that this guitar, and the second guessing is humorous. Before I sell it for less than it's original list, I'll either send it back to Willie for one of his Charity causes, send it to his fan club's museum, donate it to one of my charities, or use it as kindling.

Have a great day! Smiles!

MikeHalloran wrote:

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Calm down. Here is the bottom line