upgrading a 1968 d28

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davejohnh	upgrading a 1968 d28	Lead	[-]
(06/10/09 12:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I was thinking of upgrading my '68 D28 to a D45 with alpine / scalloped braced top. Has anyone done this and had any success with it. Some tips would be appreciated.
FoolForWood		#1	[-]
(06/10/09 12:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Unless the top was heavily damaged, I would leave it alone. Henk
Buck		#2	[-]
(06/10/09 2:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Who would you have do the work? I do not believe Martin is currently doing such a conversion. They will re-top and re-neck creating sort of a D-28 Authentic considerably cheaper than the price of a D-28A. Some forum members have had that conversion done, buy I think the style 45 conversions are no longer offered. I don't hold late 60's Martins in high regard, so the idea of a conversion with style 45 appointments and an Alpine top appeals to me. Just have the work done by the right person, and know that it will not sell - probably - for the combined value of the guitar and conversion. If you intend to keep it, that may not be an issue. Todd
davejohnh		#3	[-]
(06/10/09 3:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks. I was thinking Martin would do the work. But you say they won't do it now. A lot of people have been advising me against this. The '68 is a nice guitar and mine has a great tight straight grained set of brazilian on the back and sides. I know it will be devalued but I have a certain sound in my mind ie. neil young massey hall. I would not intend on selling the guitar. Ever. I hope to gain in tone what I lose in authenticity / value.
12barz		#4	[-]
(06/11/09 8:43 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I'd exhaust every possible combination of strings, pins, saddles, and picks before I resorted to a topectomy. And even then, I'd probably just have a small shop build a new guitar for the approximate cost of the reconstruction and the original value. But maybe I'm just too easy to please.
Buck		#5	[-]
(06/11/09 9:37 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	12barz wrote: And even then, I'd probably just have a small shop build a new guitar for the approximate cost of the reconstruction and the original value. With high grade BRW the new guitar will cost more than the conversion. Look at what style-45-esque Dudenbostels and Hendersons sell for. davehohnh wrote: A lot of people have been advising me against this...I know it will be devalued... I say have at it, just pick the right person/company to do it. I don't think it will be devalued, but it probably won't sell for the combined value of the guitar and the conversion cost. Martin is still doing conversions, just not style 45, or so I've read. You might want to contact them to confirm this. What about a style 41 conversion? Have you considered that? Todd
MikeHalloran		#6	[-]
(06/11/09 11:31 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	With a style 41 or 42 conversion. you are leaving the back and sides alone - a lot to be said for that. When Martin was doing such conversions in the '90s, they were looking for D-21s and kept the Sitka tops. Mike Halloran '49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas
davejohnh		#7	[-]
(06/11/09 12:27 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think style 41 conversion is way to go with this. I would like to hear some stories from people who have had the work done though. Will it turn out as expected?
Buck		#8	[-]
(06/11/09 2:05 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	MikeHalloran wrote: When Martin was doing such conversions in the '90s, they were looking for D-21s and kept the Sitka tops. Mike, we may be talking about two different things here. Martin did experiment with this a bit, but those were bought by Martin, rebuilt/upgraded, then sold by Martin dealers after they travelled to NAMM, IBMA, etc. Recently, individuals have sent their personal guitars to Martin to have extensive reconstruction work done. I have heard of two 1960's D-28's that were essentially turned into D-28A's by adding an Authentic Series neck, red spruce top, and appropriate bracing. Todd
MikeHalloran		#9	[-]
(06/14/09 9:17 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, Todd, that is correct. I was only mentioning that for reference. The Authentics hadn't been conceived yet so those "upgrades" were more cosmetic than structural. I know a forum member who recently had Martin do a steel string conversion on a 00-28G about a year ago. It is a curious subject: What they will and won't do nowdays - especially when they do not want to build anything new in BRW. Before anyone takes that last statement to task, the BRW upcharge makes it quite clear they are not seeking that business. This leaves old BRW Martins as the best source of the wood. Maybe this subject belongs in a new thread. Mike Halloran '49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas Last Edited By: MikeHalloran 06/14/09 9:29 AM. Edited 1 times.
FoolForWood		#10	[-]
(06/14/09 9:55 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Two threads that may be of interest (just in case you haven't read them): http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/905 http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/topic/61330 Henk
davejohnh		#11	[-]
(06/14/09 8:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Henk, Thanks for these really interesting threads. I love that sunburst 00028. I think I have some more confidence in getting the work done now. Just got to decide on the final specifications... David.
Dadsbones		#12	[-]
(07/04/09 1:32 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	davejohnh wrote: I think style 41 conversion is way to go with this. I would like to hear some stories from people who have had the work done though. Will it turn out as expected? Contact Dave Musselwhite. He has a bit of experience in this type of conversion. If you need contact info, backchannel me and I will provide it. Or PM Tonguy. I think he's had it or is having it done. Gotta tell you though. Thinking the conversion will get you close to that particular sound is not definite. Never mind Neil's playing style... Wood combinations are just part of the story. Two guitars built to the exact same specs at different times on the line sound different. A felllow forumite owns a '69 D-45. It sounds completely different from the Massey Hall sound. It's sounds sweet, just not that sound you're chasing. Come to think of it he also has a custom D-45 made to the same specs as the D-45SS. I've played 4 SS's now. His guitar sounds nothing like them. It's really creamy and lush and wonderful in it's own right. Over the course of a few years I've owned a bunch of dreads. Still do. Brazilian, adi, sitka, EIR, scalloped, forward-shifted, rear shifted, 1/4, 5/16th inch Non adjustable, filled with ebony, adjustable --- etc, etc, etc. The guitar that most reminds me of that Massey Hall tone? My '97 HD-28 If that '68 is a clean example, it would be a tough decision for me to rip her apart. Get to a few vintage guitar shows and play a bunch of guitars. You'll find the sound you're looking for and use can use the '68 as trade bait. YMMV max Oh yeah, and backchannel PSCUTT. He has a bunch of experience chasing the same tone.
kcoyner		#13	[-]
(07/04/09 6:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Gotta tell you though. Thinking the conversion will get you close to that particular sound is not definite. Never mind Neil's playing style... Wood combinations are just part of the story. Two guitars built to the exact same specs at different times on the line sound different. Some great advice Max. I had thought about having my '65 D-28 converted to pre-war D-28 specs in regards to top, bracing, etc. I went as far as taking the guitar to my luthier. His advice was much the same. There really is no way to predict the outcome, and I like the guitar the way it is. There is a chance that I would loose that and wind up with something that I hated. I still dream about finding that old 60's D-28 with the bashed in top, buying it for a song and proceeding with this project, but this guitar is going to stay the way it is. k
bodegahwy		#14	[-]
(07/05/09 9:03 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think you might look into a "Kimseyfied" D-28. Unless you are love with the bling (and you are unlikely to ever get that value back in a conversion), I suspect that you can get the sound you want by sending your guitar to Bryan Kimsey and talking with him about what you are looking for. http://www.bryankimsey.com/ Bryan's website Bryan has worked on a lot of forum owner's guitars with positive response. Last Edited By: bodegahwy 07/05/09 9:11 AM. Edited 1 times.
1CSNfan		#15	[-]
(07/05/09 5:33 PM) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There was some nice braz in 68. A nice 68 D-28 is a great guitar. A conversion is just a conversion. \ If your doing it because you want a D-45, go ahead. But if it doesn't sound like Neil's guitar now, it won't after you spend all that money on it either. Mark Martins, because that is something everybody everywhere does in the same language....
Dadsbones		#16	[-]
(07/06/09 6:46 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	1CSNfan wrote: There was some nice braz in 68. A nice 68 D-28 is a great guitar. A conversion is just a conversion. \ If your doing it because you want a D-45, go ahead. But if it doesn't sound like Neil's guitar now, it won't after you spend all that money on it either. That's the one. max
FoolForWood		#17	[-]
(07/06/09 7:50 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Max, this is completely off topic (so please forgive me, folks), but I just want to say I like it that you started frequenting The Cabin more often. I believe more of our respected, long-time, active members could spend some time here every now and then. Well, only if they want to, of course. Needless to say, they are more than welcome. I would say the atmosphere here is a little more laid back and perhaps a little less assertive than it can sometimes be in some other sections. But I believe that's a good thing. And I hope it stays that way forever. Folks with your attitude will only help. Carry on. Henk
Hendo417		#18	[-]
(09/08/09 6:46 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Todd, I'm curious why a 60's Martin wouldn't be held in high regard. They are only 20 years removed from the great mid 40's D-28's. They may have even been built by some old timers that were still around from the 40's. I had a '65 that was a peach. I know that they got clunky in the 70's, but you're the first one I've heard say anything negative about the 60's. I just bought a 1960 and am waiting for the delivery,,,,, maybe I bought the wrong year huh? TS
Michael Segui		#19	[-]
(09/08/09 8:15 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	davejohnh, Can you post some pics of the 68 D-28 you are thinking of converting? Michael Segui Est. 1974 1989 Fender Burnsidecaster (may be on the auction block soon) 2000 Martin OM-1 (with factory high gloss finish) 2009 Martin LX1 20?? Wayne Henderson Century of Progress (hopefully one day)
Buck		#20	[-]
(09/08/09 10:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hendo417 wrote: Todd, I'm curious why a 60's Martin wouldn't be held in high regard. They are only 20 years removed from the great mid 40's D-28's. They may have even been built by some old timers that were still around from the 40's. I had a '65 that was a peach. I know that they got clunky in the 70's, but you're the first one I've heard say anything negative about the 60's. I just bought a 1960 and am waiting for the delivery,,,,, maybe I bought the wrong year huh? I didn't say they're not held in high regard. I said I don't hold them in high regard, which is of course a generalization. I've played some nice 60's Martins but especially the later 60's guitars just don't, as a group, interest me much. Here's a quote from Steve Swan in a thread about 50's-60's D-28's in the Vintage Corner, "There is a general trend for the D-28s to get heavier in build and brighter and less open in tone and voice as they progress from 1950 through 1967. It's not a straight line, though." Steve's credentials are better than mine, but that has been my observation as well. With the change from hide glue, long saddle, T-bar necks, and increasingly large bridge plates the late 60's guitars just don't sound as good as to my ears as earlier guitars. Not that you need me to validate your purchase, but I have more confidence in the average 1960 guitar than I do the average 1969 guitar. Your point that some of the prewar staff might still be building guitars is true. However, it's not only their skill that determined the final tone of the guitar. Sure, they may have been well built in terms of fit and finish, but, and this is big, they were missing red spruce tops, scalloped braces, tucked braces, long saddles, hide glue, and T-bars. There is only 20 years from 1944 and the end of scalloped bracing to 1964 and the move to the new factory, but there is a world of difference between the D-28's of those years. Todd Last Edited By: Buck 09/08/09 10:05 PM. Edited 1 times.

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