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 HD28VGUY |
Heads up to all you Willie Nelson/Nylon Strings/Martin N-20 fans |
Lead | |
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(07/01/09 9:17 AM) |
Run, don't walk to Gruhn's website. They have a pristine 1969 N-20, which is the same guitar (minus the extraordinary playwear) as the one Willie
Nelson plays.
No affiliation. Just want someone here to buy it!! |
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HD28VGUY |
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(07/01/09 9:24 AM) |
Sorry about the double-post. My computer was doing something funky...
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 play2praiseHim |
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(07/01/09 10:12 AM) |
You should also post this in the Classical Gas section of this forum. Someone should contact MikeHolloran. ...... Nevermind, I took care of it.
Last Edited By: play2praiseHim
07/01/09 10:33 AM.
Edited 2 times.
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MikeHalloran |
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(07/01/09 12:13 PM) |
I posted pics on the Trigger thread in the Classical Gas board,
Mike Halloran
'49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas |
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tonguy |
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(07/01/09 12:20 PM) |
Tony
(Forum intro - page 11) Say hello to my little friend...  Mr. Slots Street Name - J-Bang (Just Buy A 'Nuther Guitar) My cure for GAS - my wife asking, "Which one(s) are you selling to get that?" |
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SixxStringer |
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(07/01/09 2:11 PM) |
What a nice instrument that would be to add to the collection.
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SixxStringer |
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(07/01/09 2:13 PM) |
I meant to say...
What a nice instrument that would be to add to the collection, TONY! |
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MudslideTim |
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(07/01/09 2:49 PM) |
It certainly is a pretty guitar, I cant comment on the price but it sure is a sweet instrument.
Cheers, MST |
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tim52160 |
N 20 | ||
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(07/01/09 6:35 PM) |
Of course this happens when i am always low on cash and am laid off right now. Everytime!! Thanks for posting it. Someday it will all come together at the
right time. Now excuse me,i've got a lot of screaming and crying to
 catch up on . lol
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MikeHalloran |
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(07/01/09 9:53 PM) |
One of the very few instruments that I would trade my Guild Mark VII for.
Mike Halloran
'49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas |
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tim52160 |
N 20 | ||
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(07/02/09 12:12 PM) |
THanks again Mike and all the rest who help me in this forum. I really appreciate you guys and the knowledge and wisdom and opinions you share, I just checked
gruhns site and he has it under martin flatops instead of classical guitars.. man if i wasnt laid off i'd be seriously scrounging up money and as usuall
the land behind my farm that i hope to buy in future just came up again for sale. makes you wonder doesnt it ? lolHope your getting better Mike.
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Hankak |
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(07/04/09 11:35 PM) |
The price seems kind of high, what do you pricing experts think?
What's a fair price on a good one in these times? Thanks Hank |
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MikeHalloran |
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(07/05/09 10:37 AM) |
The price is $500 more than these were selling for 6 years ago and less than the BRW reissues went for.
I have no doubt it will sell for what he wants.
Mike Halloran
'49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas |
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MVSarles |
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(07/05/09 10:46 AM) |
"The price seems kind of high, what do you pricing experts think?"
Hank, I'm no expert on anything here, but . . . consider that this guitar appears to be nearly flawless and they only made 277. If this guitar speaks to you, another one at a better price just may never happen. The EIR N-20WN models went for this price--in 1999. Mark |
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Hankak |
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(07/07/09 7:32 PM) |
Gruhn's N-20 has a rounded bridge ends whereas Willie's and the re-issue have square bridge ends.
The Gruhn pic is not clear enough to determine the headstock corners. For tuners, I think Willie's has Waverlies, the re-issue has Irving Sloane, and I don't know what Gruhn's has. No way to tell scale lengths, except the re-issue has 25.4" So there are some differences unless my info is wrong. Hank |
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MikeHalloran |
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(07/08/09 1:29 AM) |
Hankak wrote:Hank, where your info is wrong is if you think that Trigger came from Martin like that. Willie's originally looked like the one at Gruhn before it was modified. Shot Jackson called Matt Umanov to find a replacement guitar after Willie smashed up his Baldwin. Rick Turner was working for Matt and made the bridge on Trigger (twice!) to house the Prismatone pickup salvaged from his smashed up Baldwin guitar made by Harmony. The reissues copied Rick Turner's bridge. Willie's management paid $750 sight unseen for the used guitar with the custom bridge. The Gruhn has the correct Kolb tuners - same as my '69 N-10 and '71 N-20 (don't you own that now?). Kolb went out of business around 1980. Because the worm and gear are made of the same metal, it is imperative that these tuners stay lubed. They disintegrate when dry, worse than old Waverlies. Because Martins used 35mm centers, any standard classical tuner will drop in. Kolbs were OE on the N-10/20 beginning 1969 and CFM used up the Waverly stock on the other nylon stringed guitars. The other Martins with stock Kolbs were the D12-20/35 beginning 1971. The modern Irving Sloan classical tuners are Waverlys. Waverly steel stringed tuners came later and were based on the Sloan designs. The scale length is 25.4" as are all 1969s and the reissues. The scale lengthened to 26.44" in 1970. This is well documented. Since Trigger is a '69 like this one, the reissues have the shorter scale. Also, the longer scale N-20s have the shaped "Spanish" style headstock - all '69s have the squared 'stock.
Mike Halloran
'49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas |
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Hankak |
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(07/08/09 1:37 PM) |
Mike
Thanks for the detailed update. Why did Martin lengthen the scale? Hank |
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MikeHalloran |
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(07/08/09 6:13 PM) |
Hankak wrote:The longer scale increases volume, produces warmer basses and sharper trebles without requiring much of a design strain as the top tension increase is minor. The Spanish have been doing it since the '60s. By 1971, Gibson got out of the nylon string business while Guild dropped the high end Mark VI and VII. The dozen or so VIIs were the only nylon stringed Guilds made with the long scale. Interestingly, Guild also made the steel stringed G-41 jumbo dred and the F-618 12 string with the longer scale. It is estimated that 4 '69 N-20s may have been finished and shipped in 1970 - these would have beren made to the old specs. All other '70s and beyond had the longer scale, shaped headstock and deeper body in EIR. Also in 1970, the 00-28C got EIR. It, the 00-18C and 00-16C also got the longer scale. The Humphrey models and the 000C-16 models have the same long scale. I don't know about the Sting model. Other than that, only the N-20WN reissues had the 25.4" scale after January, 1970. All other nylon stringed Martins were long scale.
Mike Halloran
'49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas
Last Edited By: MikeHalloran
07/08/09 6:34 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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rschwa9966 |
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(07/09/09 8:49 PM) |
Has anyone here ever played a pre-1970 Martin N-20? Thoughts?
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MikeHalloran |
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(07/10/09 9:27 AM) |
rschwa9966 wrote: I have played a few and, until recently, owned a 1969 N-10. Compared to other Martin nylon stringed guitars, these are not as full or resonant. On the other hand, the sharper midrange makes them ideal for some acoustic jazz and we all know how his sounds flat picked. He does record his acoustic and electrified. From the helicopter view, I think that the 00-28G is better overall, the 000-28C has a bigger sound, the 00-28C is mellower... The changes to the model in 1970, longer scale and deeper body, improved the guitar especially in regards to the stated goal: a more "Spanish" classical guitar. Being primarily a folk player, I would like to have one, especially for the WN connection. Take away his connection and, IMO, it's the weak sister of the bunch. I would still like to have one. I played my 1969 N-10 in public once only and that was at an open mic hosted by KYDave. It was ok but, when someone wanted to trade it for an interesting old Vega banjo, I didn't think twice.
Mike Halloran
'49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas
Last Edited By: MikeHalloran
07/10/09 9:33 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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Hankak |
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(07/10/09 3:30 PM) |
MikeHalloran wrote:Mike If Willie's staff got the N-20 for him without him seeing or trying it out, there had to be a lot of luck or this N-20 was special. I wonder if any other nylon string Martin was available if it would have become a "Trigger"? If the Gruhn N-20 is valued at $5500.00 because of Willie Nelson how much would it be worth if some other guitar would have become Trigger? Around $3000.00 just like the other Braz nylon 28s? Thanks Hank |
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