Affordable underappreciated vintage guitars

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Ozark1951	Affordable underappreciated vintage guitars	Lead	[-]
(07/01/09 10:31 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Are there any underappreciated affordable "vintage" Martins out there? I am no expert on what specifically makes a guitar vintage but I am guessing that it has to be 50+ years old. So it would have to be in the fifites, early sixties or earlier. Is anything out there like this that does not cost you your first born and a mortgage on the youngest? I'm just a rolling stone, down the lost highway. Martin D18VS, Recording King RD 227 Red Bear Picks
Buck		#1	[-]
(07/01/09 11:04 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My first thoughts are Style 15 - 0 and 00 sizes, any post war gut string, any arch top. Doesn't mean they'll be cheap, just cheaper. Todd
rob		#2	[-]
(07/01/09 12:27 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If your playing style is suited to a small bodied guitar, Martin 0 and 00 sizes in styles up to 21 are still a good value, even fairly priced IMHO, though they are ever climbing it seems. However, as great as they are, these models aren't everything to all people. If you are looking to get the most bang for your buck, the pristine examples of vintage Martins will most likely not be appealing. There's a hefty upcharge for a 50-70 year old acoustic musical instrument that is in clean and original condition. However, if you educate yourself on what issues are or aren't deal breakers for you and find an example with the "right" issues, you can still find relatively good bargains out there, even with the most reputable dealers (George Gruhn, Eric Schoenberg, Fred Oster, etc.). Of course, a guitar with issues (cosmetic only, let's say) is worth the most to the player in the sound, feel, and playability departments, which I assume would be the most important to you in this case. I think the keys to getting a fair deal are patience, knowing exactly what you are looking for, and the experience or intuition to know when the right opportunity knocks at your door. RobM 1919 00-21
barfret		#3	[-]
(07/01/09 12:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	What about an 0-28 ca. 1900-1910? These come up occasionally and are more affordable, and have terrific sound, playability and looks. The only trick is finding one that is healthy with strings you enjoy playing. For me, that would mean extra-light guage steel strings. --Will
markdemaray		#4	[-]
(07/01/09 12:49 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There are lots of options out there - I have had lots of fun finding wonderful old guitars, although not Martins - and restoring them to playing shape. I have some incredibly cool and fantastic sounding guitars from doing this and have posted these many times here in the forum. One of my favorites is this 1937 Regal Model 45. It started life as a lefty 12 fret square neck dobro-lap style guitar - mahogany sides and back, X braced red spruce top, bought it form the son of the original owner who bought it new in 1938 - but he played it outdoors and played it hard for many years so it was in pretty bad shape - had most of the finish coming off , neck coming loose, fretboard issues, a few cracks, etc. I got it for under $400 - I knew it was effectively the deeper bodied (5 1/4") 12 fret mahogany version of my rosewood Regal-made Washburn dread from 1937 - exact same trim and appointments. So I had a few repair guys help get it to playing shape - we reshaped the neck to a fat 1 3/4" nut width, it had no neck reinforcement so I routed a channel for 1/2" steel T-Bar as used by Martin and had some of the T-Bar made up, bought an ebony fretboard and small dots from Martin's old North Street factory (Guitarmaker's Connection) from a D-18V, fixed the top cracks and sprayed a sunburst as close as we could get to similar era Regals. Needed a new bridge and bridgeplate - the X bracing was left pretty much stock as it was already scalloped and in good shape. All repairs were done with hot hide glue. Used Pernambuco bridge pins - put on Waverly tuners as the stock Regal tuners are the very cool '57 Chevy valve-cover style, but they rattled so bad I had to replace them. I have the original early firestripe pattern pickguard which I have not reinstalled at this point, although I likely will. It was a lot of fun to make, got some great advice from many folks on this forum and the guitar ended up one of the most powerful sounding 12 fret deep bodied dreads you will ever hear. Without fail, every time I take it to a jam, someone says "what the heck is that thing ?? it sounds incredible……" Just a huge bass and a great balanced tone - one of my very favorite guitars. In the end, I think I have about 2/3 of the price into this one that one could buy a used D-18A for. Its great fun and a very cool guitar. If anyone ever comes to the Seattle area, stop by and try it out. Mark
jscio		#5	[-]
(07/01/09 2:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Underappreciated vintage: Guild D40 & D50 from the 60's and 70's. Early 70's Martins. Red Label Yamahas.
Metropro	What's affordable? What's vintage?	#6	[-]
(07/01/09 2:56 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Your straight forward request has stirred up lots of issues that have been beaten to death here. What's "vintage," etc.... But I'm not going to get into that. I basically track vintage Martins from 1898-1944, stopping when the use of scalloped braces ended. You need to decide what's affordable based on your budget. Anything built between 1944-1968 will be cheaper than a comparable guitar built prior to that. If you have your heart set on a dreadnought then you'd better stick to the 1950's and 60's. There are some good deals out there in steel string Martins built between 1923-1944. Of course, a "good deal" is relative. It's a buyer's market right now. 0-17's have sold at dealers for around $3500. You can find quite a few 00-17's for the same price. 0-21's and 00-21's are much cheaper than 0-28's or 00-28's. There's no rational reason for the large price difference between the two. And lately, 00-18's have been selling at very good prices. I believe a 1926 00-18 sold at Gruhn for around $6300 earlier in the year. A 1926 0-21 just sold on "Buy & Sell" for less than $3500. Guitars with repair issues will sell for even less. Chris Last Edited By: Metropro 07/01/09 9:46 PM. Edited 1 times.
Ozark1951		#7	[-]
(07/01/09 7:46 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My old teacher, Bill Crahan, out of Lawerence Ks, had an old Martin 00 rosewood that was not so very pretty but sounded like a nice old vintage Martin does. He bought it from Mass St. and it became his favorite guitar. This is what I am thinking of. The finish might be half gone but the sound and structural integrity is there. I hope to get another guitar in a year or two and instead of going the new route this time, I want to plan ahead and consider an older Martin that could be afforded. The hard part for me is that I really want a 1 3/4" nut width so it could be a real challenge. An old 00-18 is kinda what I am thinking of or an older 17 series. Thanks for your ideas and comments. Keep em coming. I'm just a rolling stone, down the lost highway. Martin D18VS, Recording King RD 227 Red Bear Picks
SColumbusSt		#8	[-]
(07/01/09 8:50 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Mark, Thanks for sharing the story of your Regal. I bet it sounds huge! On the original post topic, I think converted Gibson Smeck's are the most attractive relatively affordable sleepers still out there. Keith
Ozark1951		#9	[-]
(07/01/09 9:34 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't know what a "converted" Smeck is. I'm just a rolling stone, down the lost highway. Martin D18VS, Recording King RD 227 Red Bear Picks
flatpickr		#10	[-]
(07/01/09 9:38 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Washburns from the 30's and 40's can be wonderful guitars. I played a '48 Washburn Dread that was owned by Kenny Smith, killer guitar.
james747		#11	[-]
(07/01/09 10:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	SColumbusSt wrote: On the original post topic, I think converted Gibson Smeck's are the most attractive relatively affordable sleepers still out there. +1. Ozark, these are originally hawaiian style guitars, built for lap play. Many threads on this subject. The full conversion lowers the action, nut and saddle, compensates the saddle, radiuses the original flat fingerboard, installs frets instead of fret markers, and often reduces the huge neck profile. Conversion makes them less collectible, but these are among the best vintage guitars I have heard for great Gibson tone. A comparable J-35 is a much more expensive guitar and I've yet to play a banner J-45 to match the tone of my Stage Deluxe.
photorc		#12	[-]
(07/01/09 10:49 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	james747 wrote: The full conversion lowers the action, nut and saddle, compensates the saddle, radiuses the original flat fingerboard, installs frets instead of fret markers, and often reduces the huge neck profile. Conversion makes them less collectible... Some require very little work at all. I think mine had frets added, and maybe the nut and saddle were futzed with a bit. I'm not sure about collectibility, but they're probably more desirable and worth more converted. That's certainly true of the 00-40H. Tho' it sounds like a '30's 17 might fit the bill best. Robert
james747		#13	[-]
(07/02/09 12:08 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Right Robert, I've seen 'em in various stages of conversion. As for collectibility or how they were originally built, I yield to you and others. Also many threads on conversion versus keeping original. As we speak my '36 0-17H, which the very reverend Tommy Nichols sold to me, is being converted. I can't wait. As to the original question, Tony Klassen thinks the Oahu hawaiians, once converted, are quite affordable and wonderful sounding guitars played spanish style. Anyone own or played one? Chime in Tony, if you see this.
Windwalker	Affordable old Guitars	#14	[-]
(07/02/09 12:38 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi just a word of caution be sure and check with a reliable source before you buy. A lot of the ventige Guitars I see for sale are REP-OFF's most of the one's I've seen on, List and auctions on line have been priced over Blue book and what I've seen them actualy bring there are a lot people taking advantge of the uninformed buyers out there. '
bassrun		#15	[-]
(07/02/09 1:16 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	markdemaray wrote: One of my favorites is this 1937 Regal Model 45. It started life as a lefty 12 fret square neck dobro-lap style guitar - mahogany sides and back, X braced red spruce top, bought it form the son of the original owner who bought it new in 1938 - but he played it outdoors and played it hard for many years so it was in pretty bad shape - had most of the finish coming off , neck coming loose, fretboard issues, a few cracks, etc. I got it for under $400 - I knew it was effectively the deeper bodied (5 1/4") 12 fret mahogany version of my rosewood Regal-made Washburn dread from 1937 - exact same trim and appointments. So I had a few repair guys help get it to playing shape - we reshaped the neck to a fat 1 3/4" nut width, it had no neck reinforcement so I routed a channel for 1/2" steel T-Bar as used by Martin and had some of the T-Bar made up, bought an ebony fretboard and small dots from Martin's old North Street factory (Guitarmaker's Connection) from a D-18V, fixed the top cracks and sprayed a sunburst as close as we could get to similar era Regals. Needed a new bridge and bridgeplate - the X bracing was left pretty much stock as it was already scalloped and in good shape. All repairs were done with hot hide glue. Used Pernambuco bridge pins - put on Waverly tuners as the stock Regal tuners are the very cool '57 Chevy valve-cover style, but they rattled so bad I had to replace them. I have the original early firestripe pattern pickguard which I have not reinstalled at this point, although I likely will. Mark-- I'm surprised this one's braces had already been scalloped. I believe mine (natural top) had massive, unscalloped double-X bracing as it came from the factory. Anyway, I agree with Mark's enthusiasm about this model Regal (and its Recording King fraternal twin). --John
granmamou		#16	[-]
(07/02/09 5:37 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	james747 wrote: As to the original question, Tony Klassen thinks the Oahu hawaiians, once converted, are quite affordable and wonderful sounding guitars played spanish style. Anyone own or played one? Chime in Tony, if you see this. And right Tony is. Here's one from the mid-30's that is Brazilian rosewood with lots of pearl inlay everywhere. Including the conversion I have less than $3K into it. The neck was reprofiled from a square neck (notice the little numbers still on the fretboard for lap playing), the neck reset for the proper angle and a complete refret for proper height. Make sure you get an X-braced one as there are some examples with ladder bracing. Mine is loud with great tone and plays easily as a fingerpicker or flatpicker. It's as deep as a Nick Lucas and as beautiful as a pearl Martin.
bassrun		#17	[-]
(07/02/09 7:59 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	granmamou wrote: james747 wrote: As to the original question, Tony Klassen thinks the Oahu hawaiians, once converted, are quite affordable and wonderful sounding guitars played spanish style. Anyone own or played one? Chime in Tony, if you see this. And right Tony is. Here's one from the mid-30's that is Brazilian rosewood with lots of pearl inlay everywhere. Including the conversion I have less than $3K into it. The neck was reprofiled from a square neck (notice the little numbers still on the fretboard for lap playing), the neck reset for the proper angle and a complete refret for proper height. Make sure you get an X-braced one as there are some examples with ladder bracing. Mine is loud with great tone and plays easily as a fingerpicker or flatpicker. It's as deep as a Nick Lucas and as beautiful as a pearl Martin. Wow, that is one gorgeous guitar! --John
james747		#18	[-]
(07/02/09 8:53 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	bassrun wrote: Wow, that is one gorgeous guitar! Amen to that; it's flat out beautiful. And I like the numbering on the fingerboard. Tony removed similar markings when he worked on my Larson 562 1/2, which had been used for lap play. Granmamou, please take the tone description a bit farther. It's own sound? Anything like a Martin or Larson? Last Edited By: james747 07/02/09 8:57 AM. Edited 1 times.
markdemaray		#19	[-]
(07/02/09 9:02 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Wow, that is one gorgeous guitar! Indeed - and if you can imagine it, it plays and sounds even better than it looks. I was fortunate to have been able to play Granmamou's Oahu - simply a spectacular guitar. It haunted me - and of course, set me on a mission to find a similar one - and I did find a more plain version - here is my X braced deep bodied Oahu - maple sides and back - almost identical in specs to a Nick Lucas - it sounds very, very nice. Found this one for about $1500. Granmamou is right too watching carefully for X bracing in these 30's Oahus - many are ladder braced. Mark
Ozark1951		#20	[-]
(07/02/09 11:01 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Besides ebay, where does one find these guitars? I'm just a rolling stone, down the lost highway. Martin D18VS, Recording King RD 227 Red Bear Picks

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