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 MPS |
Bar Frets |
Lead | |
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(06/10/09 6:36 AM) |
Am looking at an early-30s Martin with bar frets. Someone yesterday said he hates bar frets -- they "feel different." From what I've read,
they're taller and narrower than T frets.
What are your thoughts/experiences? Mike
Mike Sampson
Martin 0-18 Custom (Adi) -- Martin 0-28VS -- Martin 00-21 GE -- Martin 000-18VS Custom -- Martin D-18 GE -- Santa Cruz OMS -- Kennedy OM -- 1970s Guild F-212 |
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 VVC41 |
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(06/10/09 8:50 AM) |
I had the same apprehension when I first started to look at 20s and 30s martins. Takes a little getting used to -- they require a bit lighter touch -- but
once used to them, I preferred them over the more modern frets. Give em a try -- you may like them also.
Vic Charlotte, NC |
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bodegahwy |
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(06/10/09 9:06 AM) |
They can be a little ragged at the ends if they are not well dressed, but all in all I like them. They do require a different lighter touch, but that is
probably a good thing.
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jcsw |
Bar Frets | ||
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(06/10/09 9:35 AM) |
They do feel different then t-frets. IMO it's because of the proportional difference in the dimension of the fret more than anything. Most t-frets are
around .080 wide and about .043 tall vs. bar frets that are only about .050 wide and usually about the same height as the t-fret. The transition from the
horizontal surface of the bar fret to the vertical surface is more abrupt and that takes some time to adjust to. Your fingers are used to the fatter, rounder
t-frets, so they just feel different. For me, it didn't take long and I play guitars with both types of frets almost daily and really don't notice the
difference anymore. Try em, you'll like em.
Jimmy |
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barfret |
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(06/10/09 9:59 AM) |
If you have tall bar frets you just need to lessen pressure when
sliding your fretting hand up and down the neck. Some say a compression fretted guitar has different tonal qualities than a T bar / T fretted neck. I don't notice that difference too much. But I do enjoy the old fashioned nature of bar frets despite the occasional finger snag. --Will |
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rob |
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(06/10/09 1:07 PM) |
The way the frets are dressed is very important. If they're level and well dressed, bar frets feel great and are easy to play; but just a bit different
than T-frets, as stated above.
1919 00-21 with period bar stock from TJ Thompson's shop, ca. 2002... 
RobM
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Roger Kern |
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(06/10/09 1:16 PM) |
Here's my R-18 with bar frets. I really don't notice much of a difference in how I fret on this guitar versus my T-fret ones.
Finding somebody to work on them isn't easy any more, though.
Roger
Martins (standard): 1883(?) 1-21(?) custom(?), 1919 Style A Mandolin, 1931 5-17T, 1933 R-18, ~1937 Style 1 uke, 1951 00-17, 1971 D12-20 Martins (custom): Maury's Music 00-28VSMM1, Buffalo Brothers 000-16SK2 Pictures 
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Fingerstyle2 |
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(06/10/09 3:38 PM) |
Takes a little getting used to -- they require a bit lighter touch -- but once used to them, I preferred them over the more modern frets.I agree with Vic and the other previous posters. Out of ten+ instruments, I only own one with T frets--a GO travel guitar. In addition to being able to use a lighter touch, bar frets allow me to do barre chords, hammer-on's, and pull-off's, etc. more easily. Some people think, incorrectly, that the tops of bar frets should be flat, which results in sharp edges that can catch the fingertip. According to T.J., on properly dressed bar frets only the middle third of the top of the fret should come in contact with the strings. David |
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Paul Asbell |
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(06/10/09 5:50 PM) |
>In addition to being able to use a lighter touch, bar frets allow me to do barre chords, hammer-on's, and pull-off's, etc. more easily.<
Another +1 for this. The hardest part for most folks is lightening up your LH touch. Once you do that, you'll find not only that you enjoy playing on bar frets, but it will also improve your touch on T-frets. +1 to the observation that not many techs know how to setup and maintain bar frets well, however. |
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VVC41 |
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(06/10/09 8:26 PM) |
One last thought -- know that if the guitar needs work on the bar frets at some time, that this is not an easy repair -- in other words, finding someone with
the necessary experience to do repairs and/or replacement can be a challenge. Having said that, I agree with others that you will like them.
Vic Charlotte, NC |
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MPS |
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(06/10/09 9:30 PM) |
Thanks, guys! This is exactly what I wanted to know. I think I'll call the guy tomorrow and tell him to send me the guitar.
Mike
Mike Sampson
Martin 0-18 Custom (Adi) -- Martin 0-28VS -- Martin 00-21 GE -- Martin 000-18VS Custom -- Martin D-18 GE -- Santa Cruz OMS -- Kennedy OM -- 1970s Guild F-212 |
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mylescdavis |
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(06/11/09 5:56 AM) |
VVC41 wrote: You just need to know the right repair people - any of the guys that hang out here can deal with them no problem. That Berck guy did a beautiful job on my '34 000-18 (don't want to start another "hosanna" thread!) On the original topic, I like playing guitars with them a lot. How much of that is because of the guitars themselves and how much the frets is open to debate, but no problems here.
"The good Lord might have made something better than country ham, but he never has let me taste it yet...." Senator Sam Ervin
Myles Cochran |
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Folkway Music |
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(06/12/09 6:32 AM) |
A Repair-person addition to this thread:
Bar frets are supposed to be tall. All too often people dress them down to T-fret height, which is incorrect. Please don't be tempted to do this! Also, the trick in making bar frets not feel like railway ties is to ensure that the tops are well rounded. When using crowning files designed for T-frets to crown bar-frets a repair person will put an incorrect radius on the fret tops. To properly crown bar frets it's a must to use a 3-corner file in the traditional way. It takes more skill to crown frets properly this way, but the feel of the fingerboard is really that much better after the work is done. Mark Stutman
Martin Warranty Repair-Guy, Folkway Music (.com)
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Rank Stranger |
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(06/12/09 7:14 AM) |
Just played my first with bar frets yesterday. For a minute or two I found I had to adjust my left hand pressure, but after that it was no problem. Actually, I
kind of liked them. . . .
RS |
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Arnoldgtr |
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(06/12/09 11:20 AM) |
All too often people dress them down to T-fret height, which is incorrect. Please don't be tempted to do this! If you are referring to prewar tee fret height (0.025 to 0.030), then I agree. But I see no problem with dressing them to modern tee fret height (0.040 to 0.045). I personally don't like bar frets (or any frets) when they are higher than 0.045. John |
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jcsw |
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(06/12/09 12:42 PM) |
Arnoldgtr wrote: I'll second John's statement. The taller bar fret IMO is one of the reasons some players shy away from them. Jimmy |
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rob |
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(06/12/09 1:06 PM) |
I'll second John's statement. The taller bar fret IMO is one of the reasons some players shy away from them.I'll third John's statement. Bill Tippin set up my 00 and said one reason I was having problems with getting a good clean fretted note was because the bar frets were a bit high and out of level. He took them to around .042 and it did make a nice difference in ease of play and intonation. RobM
Last Edited By: rob
06/12/09 1:13 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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MPS |
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(06/14/09 8:24 AM) |
Got the guitar yesterday and my fingers hurt from playing it so much! Based on the serial number (#424XX), it's a 1930 0-18K -- 12-fret 0-size with style
18 decorations and Koa back, sides, and top originally made for Hawaiian-style music. It has new bar frets and a new belly bridge to accommodate the slanted
saddle and cover the spot from the old bridge.
I haven't noticed a big difference in how it plays -- but I have noticed that hammer-ons and pull-offs seem easier and I seem to catch a finger on fast slides sometimes. It does respond to a light touch. The guitar itself is just fantastic. It is so alive and resonant, with an incredibly sweet, warm, balanced voice. I couldn't be happier. Now I finally own a real "vintage" guitar! Mike
Mike Sampson
Martin 0-18 Custom (Adi) -- Martin 0-28VS -- Martin 00-21 GE -- Martin 000-18VS Custom -- Martin D-18 GE -- Santa Cruz OMS -- Kennedy OM -- 1970s Guild F-212 |
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basilking |
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(06/14/09 12:31 PM) |
hammer-ons and pull-offs seem easier...I seem to catch a finger on fast slides sometimesAgree. My '20 0-18K is like your '30 in its "resonant...incredibly sweet, warm, balanced voice..." despite structural differences [mine's fan-braced, orig pyramid bridge]. The Koa on mine's quite plain compared to the beautiful figuring on yours. I've minimal intonation issues with the un-slanted saddle as it's mostly used for slack-key and slide, tunings oriented towards a given key or complementary keys. "The Biscuit" was named long ago when a now-deceased veteran Martin expert said, "Why, it's light as a ____ ". 
Very careful burnishing of the fret-ends can reduce "finger-snagging", suggest this be done by a bar-fret expert/pro. Congrats on your lovely guitar! |
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MPS |
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(06/14/09 6:23 PM) |
Basilking --
Yours is lovely, too -- cool that it's still got the original pyramid bridge. Yours has different inlay dots on the fretboard, too. I assume the bone nut is a replacement when it was converted for "Spanish-style play." With fan bracing, do you use silk and steels on it? One thing about a Hawaiian guitar is that they don't put dots on the side of the fretboard. Playing this thing I'm going to learn the fretboard by feel! I took out my inspection mirror and flashlight this afternoon and checked it out on the inside. Incredibly small maple bridgeplate, and very heavily scalloped braces. That explains why it's so light. I love 0-sized guitars. This is a fun contrast to the 0-28VS. Mike
Mike Sampson
Martin 0-18 Custom (Adi) -- Martin 0-28VS -- Martin 00-21 GE -- Martin 000-18VS Custom -- Martin D-18 GE -- Santa Cruz OMS -- Kennedy OM -- 1970s Guild F-212 |
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