What the heck is the difference, between a collectable and a Player's guitar????

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onewilyfool	What the heck is the difference, between a collectable and a Player's guitar????	Lead	[-]
(06/09/09 11:28 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None A freind of mine has a 1929 00-28 (I can't remember if it is a oo-28 or 00-21). To get this guitar he had to trade a couple of guitars and some cash. He told me the value of the guitar was $20,000. Now this guitar sounded fantastic!!! It was in good condition, had had some work done like neck reset and such, had a lot of strumming rash on the treble side of the strings......but other than that....was a great guitar. For that price, I would expect museum quality....lol. I don't collect guitars, but I have 3 pre-war guitars (martin, Stromberg-Voisinet, and Washburn) They all have work done, and bridges replaced, etc. But, I consider them player's guitar, and not collectable guitars. For example, the Washburn is 100 years old, and in what I would call EXCELLENT shape, but since it has had a non original bridge replacement with a compensated saddle instead of a non-angled saddle, and since the frets were replaced with modern ones instead of the square profile frets, it has no collectable value??? (according to one collector I know) Now this guitar has a very tight grained spruce top that is 100 years old without a single crack!!!!! Beautiful rosewood back and sides with just one 2" crack in the back which has been stablized. Now my collector friend said, that an original Washburn with the original bridge and frets would be more desireable even it had cracks in the top and back, and was worn. ??????? If that is the world of collecting....lol....you can have it. This is a great sounding guitar, light as a feather and just beautiful in my eyes.....So I am happy to have "player " guitars, which I actually play, and not some VERY expensive guitar that you can't get insurance for, which I keep in a humidified glass case....just me...BUT that being said, where do you draw the line on Player/collectable????
maninblack		#1	[-]
(06/09/09 12:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think the line keeps moving back as the number of pristine examples decreases. Yesterday's player is today's collectible.
jscio		#2	[-]
(06/09/09 12:11 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"What the heck is the difference, between a collectable and a Player's guitar?" The list: 1. Too many cracks: Player. 2. Goofy, non-original inlays: Player. 3. Shaved neck: Player. 4. Repaired headstock: Player. 5. Many non-original, replaced parts: Player. 6. Broken neck at the heel: Player. 7. Water / fire / cat / dog / angry, whacked-out, insane spouse damage: Player. 8. Name carved in the guitar and other indignities: Player. 9. Combinations of the above: Player. 10. Bullet hole: Definitely collectable. (That's just me; way too cool to pass up.) All this goes out the window when it was owned by a major player............ie: Willie Nelson's guitar. Last Edited By: jscio 06/09/09 12:15 PM. Edited 2 times.
rob		#3	[-]
(06/09/09 12:15 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In my humble experience, the main difference between player and collectible is originality. The more original a guitar is, the more collectible. How a guitar sounds and/or it's appearance doesn't necessarily make a guitar more or less collectible - those two factors can raise (or lower) the price, but they don't automatically make a guitar more "collectible" by themselves. Edit: jscio's post above touches on provenance, or an instrument being famous because of documented ownership, recordings, etc. This can make an otherwise player (and even undesirable) instrument into an instant collectible. RobM 1919 00-21 Last Edited By: rob 06/09/09 12:20 PM. Edited 1 times.
photorc		#4	[-]
(06/09/09 12:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I believe the factors are too complex to reduce to simple formulas. None of the above touches on the main reason for instruments being collectible. The idea of a clean production guitar, such as a Les Paul Standard, or a Martin D-28, being a collectible is a relatively new phenomena, I would think. Most collectibles are noted for their rarity and historical importance. Many of the instruments in museums have pretty significant repairs. This label comes from one of the few mandolins hand carved by Orville Gibson, and is the only existing instrument I know of that he's signed. Does a headstock break make this instrument a "player"? Robert
Metropro		#5	[-]
(06/09/09 2:10 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think the term "player" is really a rule of thumb reference. After all, they're all collectible. By using the term "player" you immediately let people know the guitar has had a lot of use (it's not mint) and probably some repairs as well. If you want to rate a guitar's collectibility on a scale of 1-10, the "player" is at the lower end of that scale. That's because its various issues make it lesser desirable (or valuable) as a collectible item. $20k is a lot of money for 1929 00-28, but Larry Wexer has one for sale at that price. According to my files this guitar was sold last October. I assume it was returned since it's now for sale again. Maybe this was the guitar your friend bought? Chris
BillDuck		#6	[-]
(06/09/09 2:14 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think it depends on how the owner thinks of an instrument. I have a 1927 0-21 that I bought to play. So, to me it is a player. It has some issues, but some people think it is collectible. Guess when I'm done playing it, someone can collect it. I can AFFORD a player . . . . RS Now that statement may the best answer. Your Signature ... Last Edited By: BillDuck 06/09/09 3:17 PM. Edited 1 times.
Rank Stranger		#7	[-]
(06/09/09 2:23 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I can AFFORD a player . . . . RS 1936 D-18 1946 D-18 1957 D-28 1960 D-18 www.thebourbonboys.com
steveswan	Bullet hole guitars	#8	[-]
(06/09/09 3:20 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Keep an eye out for a future edition of the "Fretboard Journal" for an article on vintage guitars with bullet holes.
tonguy		#9	[-]
(06/09/09 3:37 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This discussion reminds me of some of the terms I hear on the the home renovation shows - there is a very vague line drawn between "rustic" and "ramshackle" (or "run-down"). In some cases, the only difference is if the term is being used by the buyer or the seller. My favorite term is "shabby-chic". And, Robert, I believe the headstock break wouldn't really affect the collectibility of that unique (and very historic and rare) signed Gibson mandolin. Tony (Forum intro - page 11) Say hello to my little friend... Mr. Slots Street Name - J-Bang (Just Buy A 'Nuther Guitar) My cure for GAS - my wife asking, "Which one(s) are you selling to get that?"
yiannis71		#10	[-]
(06/09/09 3:39 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Keep an eye out for a future edition of the "Fretboard Journal" for an article on vintage guitars with bullet holes. Like the ones on my '40 D-18 Regards, Yiannis
steveswan	1940 D-18	#11	[-]
(06/09/09 3:51 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yiannis, Four of those holes on your D-18 look like they might have been uniquely inventive attempts to cinch down loose braces in a homestyle regluing procedure.
Fingerstyle2		#12	[-]
(06/09/09 3:59 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	$20k is a lot of money for 1929 00-28, but Larry Wexer has one for sale at that price. According to my files this guitar was sold last October. I assume it was returned since it's now for sale again. Larry sold it last year. Then the buyer had an auto accident, ran into money problems, and had to sell it soon after buying. Larry put it back up and it has sold again, though it's still up on his site. As Robert and Chris touched on, there's not (IMHO) a "bright line" between a player's guitar and a collectible--more of a gradation. Robert gave a good example of an instrument that offers so much that's of interest to collectors that it could have all kinds of condition problems and still be "collectible." Similarly, Wayne Henderson has a pre-War D-45 with top cracks and an oversized pickguard. He certainly plays it (including driving it from Rugby to DC in the middle of winter to play it at a concert and workshop), but who would say that's it not still collectible, despite some condition issues? The irritating rhetorical wrinkle with the terms is that they imply that guitars with real value as collectibles don't get played. Not so! David Last Edited By: Fingerstyle2 06/09/09 4:10 PM. Edited 2 times.
okjj		#13	[-]
(06/09/09 4:07 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yiannis if those are bullet holes I wonder what the back looked like and the belly of the person holding that guitar at the time dead center gut shot..... jj
kriegerse		#14	[-]
(06/09/09 4:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I second David (again). They're ALL players (or should be IMHO). The real question, which may be almost as sticky to answer accurately, is what makes some of them particularly valuable. The list of condition/features like original finish, bridge plate, etc, or negatives (headstock repair and the like) clearly factors in--- but stuff like the prior owner's celebrity affecting value is all over the map. steve
rob		#15	[-]
(06/09/09 4:43 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Chris wrote: After all, they're all collectible. Steve wrote: They're ALL players (or should be IMHO). Too funny - and I agree with both statements! And I agree that a "player" is simply a term for a guitar that is less collectible due to issues of some kind. The market detirmines the dollar value of these instruments we love, and that will always be evolving. I guess as a "collector", or "player" (or both), one has to detirmine what about these instruments holds value for them, and how that lines up with what the market thinks. And then, how important is it what the market thinks? RobM 1919 00-21 Last Edited By: rob 06/09/09 4:53 PM. Edited 1 times.
granmamou		#16	[-]
(06/09/09 5:20 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	onewilyfool wrote: the Washburn is 100 years old, and in what I would call EXCELLENT shape, but since it has had a non original bridge replacement with a compensated saddle instead of a non-angled saddle, and since the frets were replaced with modern ones instead of the square profile frets, it has no collectable value??? (according to one collector I know) Now my collector friend said, that an original Washburn with the original bridge and frets would be more desireable even it had cracks in the top and back, and was worn. Soooo........how little is he trying to buy it from you for?
longboardsurfing		#17	[-]
(06/09/09 7:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	1942 00-17 "Player". Sounds like a million bucks!
Howard Klepper		#18	[-]
(06/09/09 10:43 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Among tools, a "player" is called a "worker." You see this a lot in reference to old planes as well as other tools. So far I haven't seen one that became a "collector" because of who previously worked with it.
Modac X		#19	[-]
(06/09/09 10:57 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	What the heck is the difference, between a collectable and a Player's guitar???? A "player's" guitar is a guitar that is irreversibly screwed up, looks the part, and is somewhat overpriced. A "collector's" guitar is a guitar that is irreversibly screwed up, does not look the part, and is grotesquely overpriced. Dennis
onewilyfool		#20	[-]
(06/09/09 11:50 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That's quite an 00-17...guess you don't have to worry about the next scratch??? How does it sound???