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 cb00ne |
0-16NY & 00-21NY... NY = New York... but why? |
Lead | |
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(06/01/09 5:37 PM) |
was it just paying homage to Martin's New York origins? Or is there some other reason they were called NY?
(just sittin at the laptop, too lazy to go find a reference book. Google's not being very efficient with this particular question.) - Chris 2006 000-18GE | 2001 000-15S | 2008 CEO-4R | 2006 Felix II | 1979 Silver Anniv. Strat | Big Mo M-2 Mandolin |
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MPS |
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(06/01/09 5:51 PM) |
From the Martin history books I've read, it sounds like these guitars were issued during the folk boom of the 60s, and a lot of the folks in the scene were
in New York and were playing little 12-frets like this. I think they were trying to cash in on some of that demand.
Mike
Mike Sampson
Martin 0-18 Custom (Adi) -- Martin 0-28VS -- Martin 00-21 GE -- Martin 000-18VS Custom -- Martin D-18 GE -- Santa Cruz OMS -- Kennedy OM -- 1970s Guild F-212 |
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hemet |
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(06/01/09 6:07 PM) |
I thought that the NY models were braced a little different.
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 MikeHalloran |
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(06/01/09 8:02 PM) |
>was it just paying homage to Martin's New York origins?<<br />
Yes, according to any official lit I have read. >I thought that the NY models were braced a little different<<br /> Lighter, no pickguard
Mike Halloran
'49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas |
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Jay Keller |
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(06/02/09 12:54 AM) |
I always though NY meant nylon strings.
- Jay
OM-35, M-18VME Custom, 1928 5-17T Tenor, S-O Uke, 1950 000-18, OM-30 DB Pat Donohue Please visit my website: www.jaykeller.com |
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FoolForWood |
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(06/02/09 3:53 AM) |
>I thought that the NY models were braced a little different<<br />I have found no evidence of that (yet). The 0-16NY didn't have a standard series counterpart anyway. The 00-21NY did, but going by the measurements that were given to me by several members (for the library) I see no clear difference. Nor have I found 5/16" bracing in any of the regular 00-21's. (Although some here have stated that should be the case.) OK, the bridge (that can be looked upon as a brace, too) is smaller on the NY. I'm still collecting data though, so members who own either a 00-21 or a 00-21NY (or both) are invited to measure the thickness and height of the main braces (in any case the two that form the X). For the creative, if you find a handy way to do this, extra measurements (of the other braces) are very welcome, too. Thanks. Oh, and yes, "NY" stands for New York model. (Sort of like the early Martins, with a rectangle bridge and no pickguard.) Henk
Last Edited By: FoolForWood
06/02/09 4:10 AM.
Edited 1 times.
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MAF51 |
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(06/02/09 6:01 AM) |
and a lot of the folks in the scene were in New York Perhaps a lot of the folks in the scene were in New York, but that wasn't why Martin used the "NY" suffix in the model name. As previously correctly noted in this thread, the suffix simply referred to Martin's New York origins. Here's a quote from pp. 102-103 of Book One of the new "Martin Guitars: A History" by Richard Johnston & Dick Boak: "As the company staggered uncertainly forward into modern times with its electric models, there was mounting pressure from folkniks to go the opposite direction with its acoustic guitars. The musicians of this new musical fad were a far cry from the sound-stage cowboys and country stars that had hauled the Martin logo onto center stage. Instead of wanting new models, there was now demand for the guitars Martin used to make, resulting in the introduction of the 0-16NY and 00-21NY models in 1961. These were the first reissues of earlier style guitars to appear in Martin's catalog. The NY designation stood for "New York," and though by today's standards the NY models weren't much like the old Martins with the New York stamp, the looked positively primitive at the time. With satin lacquer (low-floss) finishes, slotted headstocks, no fretboard dots, and no pickguard, many potential customers assumed they were nylon-string guitars. Martin ads suggested they were for steel or nylon strings, and often shipped them with silk and steel strings. But with X bracing like a regular steel-string model, when strung with nylon they were weak sounding at best." Marshall |
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jscio |
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(06/02/09 7:35 AM) |
The first reissue models.
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rrussell8 |
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(06/02/09 11:49 AM) |
Henk has raised a very interesting question here. I have always assumed the regular post-war 00-21 models were 5/16" braced but have never checked. Shows
how easy it is to allow assumptions to turn into facts. Unfortunately my 00-21 is 10,000 miles away, so hopefully others with 00-21s can shed some light on
this.
Happy Trails
1926 0 Uke; 1934 0-18K; 1954 0-15; 1966 00-21; 1975 0-16NY; 1993 HD-28; 1999 Backpacker; 2001 000-16GT; 2004 OM-28GE; 2004 FeLiX; 2007 LK Smith 00 |
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actaylor |
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(06/02/09 5:24 PM) |
The O-16NY was my first "good" guitar. I regret ever selling it. If Martin would do a re-issue, I'd buy one in a heartbeat!
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fichtmueller |
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(06/03/09 12:31 AM) |
@actylor:
Why wait for a reissue that may come or not: There are still 0-16NYs in the market, most vintage by now and certainly not in mint condition, that sound very good to marvellous. I got a 0-16NY only recently, heavily loved and played that is more than just satisfying. Frank forum intro p.54 or somewhere nearby. [Guild F30 * C.F. Martin 0-16NY * Steward parlor ~ 1880 * Blazer L-00 "Tulip" * Keith Johns 1977 000-42] |
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actaylor |
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(06/03/09 12:04 PM) |
fichtmueller wrote: Good point. I've seen a couple for sale from time to time, but have not been in the financial position to purchase or I just didn't care for the condition of the guitar. I haven't searched that actively for one. A re-issue, however, would give me some serious GAS. |
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photorc |
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(06/03/09 12:14 PM) |
FoolForWood wrote: I think we need to be clear in defining our terms here. I believe the question should be not whether a "pre-war", wartime, or "post-war" 00-21 had lighter braces, but whether a 1960's 00-21 had 5/16" braces in the same time frame that the NY version had 1/4". So what is the easiest way to measure brace thickness without expensive tools? I've tried several methods, and it's not as easy as it might seem. Robert |
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FoolForWood |
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(06/03/09 1:04 PM) |
I think we need to be clear in defining our terms here. I believe the question should be not whether a "pre-war", wartime, or "post-war" 00-21 had lighter braces, but whether a 1960's 00-21 had 5/16" braces in the same time frame that the NY version had 1/4". Well, I have Willi's blueprint/plan of a 1935 00-21 that has 6 mm bracing. That's a little less than 1/4", but it's a rounded figure in millimeters with no figures after the dot. Then I have two from the seventies. (Very roughly the "sturdiest" decade.) First, gitargeezer's 1974 00-21: OK, I get exactly 1/4" for the X-braces on mine. And not that you asked, 1/2" for the lateral (transverse?) brace above the soundhole, and a tad less than 1/4" for the back braces. And boomklever's 1973 00-21: Thickness 7 mmThat's a hair under 9/32" and a hair over 1/2", but these are rounded or approximate figures in millimeters, too. And finally Davids Harp's 1965 00-21NY: Well hmmm. So, if anything, the thickest of all four is actually the New Yorker. So what is the easiest way to measure brace thickness without expensive tools? I've tried several methods, and it's not as easy as it might seem. You could simply use vernier callipers or an adjustable spanner/bahco, or maybe make an imprint in some foil covered clay, foam, epoxy or something like that. But I'm sure some here will come up with clever alternatives. 
Henk |
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MikeHalloran |
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(06/03/09 1:31 PM) |
If you are looking to measure the height of braces, there is a cheap, small tool available in any auto parts store. A tire tread depth gauge is calibrated in
1/32" increments - newer ones also have a metric scale. The Milton S448 is the standard and should cost around $5. The total height is around 3" - it
should fit anywhere your hand can.
http://www.gemplers.com/tech/tire-tread.htm I knew that working for Goodyear all those years would come in handy.
Mike Halloran
'49 00-28G, '03 000C-16SGTNE, '03 000-15S, Backpacker Mandolin, '60s Style 0 uke, '67 D12-35, '75 D-35S, Cowboy X, Cowboy II (I think that's all the Martins) Many Guilds, Gibsons and Goyas
Last Edited By: MikeHalloran
06/03/09 1:33 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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FoolForWood |
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(06/03/09 1:34 PM) |
Thanks, Mike!
Henk |
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tonguy |
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(06/03/09 3:19 PM) |
Heard a funny comment about New York Martins at a recent Allendale open mike - someone played their old (1800's) Martin made in New York, and commented
that when busking on the street with it they had to switch sides to abide by the NYC alternate side parking regulations.
Tony
(Forum intro - page 11) Say hello to my little friend...  Mr. Slots Street Name - J-Bang (Just Buy A 'Nuther Guitar) My cure for GAS - my wife asking, "Which one(s) are you selling to get that?" |
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Rockradstone |
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(06/03/09 4:52 PM) |
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I keep coming up with a very, very
fat 1/4", actually right in there at 9/32". And I worked the micrometer pretty hard, on both of the upper arms. Granted, it's an old
carpenter's mike, not a modern one with a dial gauge, but I wiggled it and worked it to be sure the jaws were square, plumb and tight, and the verniers
came out pretty clear every time: 9/32". 
