Harmony 12-string with 2 saddles

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sugarinthegourd	Harmony 12-string with 2 saddles	Lead	[-]
(04/20/09 2:50 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None A friend of mine gave me an old Harmony 12-string with 2 saddles like the one pictured below. Does anyone know what the purpose of this was? Maybe to relieve stress on the single saddle or reduce the break angle? Or maybe the rearward "saddle" was originally slotted like a nut to keep the strings in position side-to-side? The guitar isn't strung up and will probably need a bit of work before it plays decently. Once I get it set up a bit I'll post back and let everyone know hos it plays & sounds. It seems Pete Townshend played one like this... "The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge." - Bertrand Russell
ASC67		#1	[-]
(04/20/09 5:03 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Never seen one like that before. Steve _______________________________________________________________ 2003 D-18 * 2006 Masterbilt DR500M * 2008 CV Strat
McCawber		#2	[-]
(04/20/09 10:37 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That looks like the lower bought of a 60's vintage Harmony Sovereign 12-string. Had one in those days and it only had one saddle. I would say someone added the 2nd one -- but why they would do that is beyond me. McCawber "We are all bozos on this bus . . . " 1967 D-28 (Still on warranty . . . . ) // 1988 Guild J-65-12 // 2003 D-42 // 2004 J-41 Special // 2006 D-18GE burst // 2004 LX1 // 2006 HD-28V burst // 1968 home made Mastertone (Yeah, a banjo) // 2007 Stelling Bellflower // HJ-40 (under construction) // Another flamed maple Mastertone style (under construction) // 2006 Epiphone Mando
RevGeo		#3	[-]
(04/21/09 8:59 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't know about that particular guitar, but I know many Harmonys from the 60s had plastic saddles that were quite wide and some folks, upon replacing them took two 'Martin size' saddles and stuck them side by side in the bridge because finding a saddle as wide as was originally in the Harmony was (and remains) pretty difficult. It's the easiest fix. Rev George
Freeman		#4	[-]
(04/21/09 1:57 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Most tailpiece twelve strings do have slots cut in the saddle to set the string spacing which would go along with your idea, but why would someone replace a carefully notched saddle with one with no notches? I also don't see any advantage to doing it that way, you would have two break angles (from the main saddle to the notched one, then to the tailpiece). Since a tailpiece instrument (mando, violin, archtop, reso) drives the top differently than a pinned bridge, you want to maintain fairly shallow break angle (it is commonly about 10 degrees) so this seems like the wrong way to set string spacing. Another slight possibility is that the second saddle is used to somehow compensate the primaries and octaves - if you try to do the compensation on one saddle you need to start with a fairly wide piece of bone and it ends up looking like a rip saw blade. But since there is no angle compensation in either of the saddles I kind of doubt that was the reason - besides the front saddle would have to be notched for the strings that were compensated on the back one (which would be the primaries). I just finished building a Stella clone with a tailpiece (and only one saddle) - there is a thread at the 12 String Cafe'. I did notch the saddle for string spacing and I did compensate each string for intonation - it is a fairly time consuming process. You might want to take this discussion over to the Cafe' in case someone there knows why this might have been done - I'm curious too.
onewent		#5	[-]
(04/21/09 3:42 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That's factory original, I have one just like it and wondered, 'why'? Dave Musselwhite set mine up and he slotted the saddle closest to the tailpiece, and rested the strings on the next one..wasn't his favorite job of the day.. It's not the Sovereign model, though, but it's referred to as the 'Pete Townsend' model by some. They sound and play very nicely..and have radiused fingerboard. Tom
sugarinthegourd		#6	[-]
(04/21/09 4:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks, onewent. Yeah, the dual saddles are original. Model number is H1270 -- more info here: http://harmony.demont.net/model.php?id=49 "The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge." - Bertrand Russell Last Edited By: sugarinthegourd 04/21/09 9:23 PM. Edited 1 times.
Freeman		#7	[-]
(04/21/09 5:26 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That link talks about tuning down "3 or 4 steps" - I'm curious what the scale length is, whether it is ladder braced (assuming it is) and how you plan to string and tune it. I've always felt that ladder braced guitars with tail pieces withstand heavier strings and down tuning better than ladder braced guitars with pinned bridges.
McCawber		#8	[-]
(04/21/09 8:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Interesting thread! After looking at the web site sugerinthegourd included, I'm thinking the previous owner must of replaced both the tailpiece and the bridge on the old Harmony 12 I had. BTW, I always tuned down a full step. IT was really a great guitar for the money I spent on it -- wish I had it now. McCawber "We are all bozos on this bus . . . " 1967 D-28 (Still on warranty . . . . ) // 1988 Guild J-65-12 // 2003 D-42 // 2004 J-41 Special // 2006 D-18GE burst // 2004 LX1 // 2006 HD-28V burst // 1968 home made Mastertone (Yeah, a banjo) // 2007 Stelling Bellflower // HJ-40 (under construction) // Another flamed maple Mastertone style (under construction) // 2006 Epiphone Mando
jscio		#9	[-]
(04/21/09 9:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Man, I've never seen one like that.
rmk photo	Harmony 12 string saddles	#10	[-]
(04/21/09 11:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Here is a photo of a Harmony H1270 original & un-altered saddle. The rear "saddle" is actually a string spacer. It is obvious from your photo that the string spacer has been replaced with a solid saddle as the string spacing is incorrect. The total string width at the saddle is 2 1/2". The spacing between the trebble most string of each set is 14/32". The spacing between the 2 strings of each set is 4/32". The scale length, as with all Harmony's, is 25.125". Hope this ends all the wild speculation about the purpose of the 'second saddle'. These guitars came with a mimeographed sheet (remember mimeographs?) saying it should be tuned down either 3 or 4 half steps. They never said specifically, but that would put the tension at about the same as a medium 6 string set. I keep mine at -3 with D'Ad mediums, and the action is still fine, unlike most I have seen. Bob
David Collins		#11	[-]
(04/22/09 12:56 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I've seen a few of those. The rear spacer saddle is to the front saddle what a nut is to a zero fret. Not much more to it than that - just positions the strings appropriately, and keeps strings from sliding around on the proper saddle with such a shallow breakover angle. "Shut up 'n play yer guitar" - Zappa

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Harmony 12-string with 2 saddles

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