How is "vintage" defined?

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MRBABAR	How is "vintage" defined?	Lead	[-]
(01/08/09 11:37 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None Is it as simple as age? If so, how old must a guitar be to considered vintage? Thanks Rob Sandt Hillsdale, NJ
Fingerstyle2		#1	[-]
(01/08/09 11:48 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Rob, You might want to check out this recent thread for various opinions: '67 D-35 vintage? And another: How old is vintage? David Last Edited By: Fingerstyle2 01/08/09 11:51 AM. Edited 1 times.
Jim Burke		#2	[-]
(01/08/09 5:00 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	On ebay, Vintage is anything from the last century, 1999 and older.
whatsinthecase		#3	[-]
(01/08/09 10:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	When an old beat up one costs more than a new one.
Howard Klepper		#4	[-]
(01/09/09 1:30 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Nothing newer than 1969 is vintage.
Tonyfrancis M		#5	[-]
(01/09/09 3:16 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	When an old beat up one costs more than a new one. Yep!
wiedler		#6	[-]
(01/09/09 3:22 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"vintage" describes a certain historic appeal which is reflected in the price. often it is the special quality of an instrument due to the construction/craftsmanship, the woods/materials used and their ageing/maturing over the years which results in a "you can't find that in a new guitar" factor. what are the most highly regarded "magic" years is different for every maker and guitar type - different for martin flattops, gibson electrics etc. although from today's viewpoint most makers' "golden era" is before the late-1960s, "vintage" doesn't necessarily mean very old: i guess a 1990 d'aquisto avant garde is considered a fine vintage guitar by most experts. i believe some contemporary builders have the potential to become tomorrow's "vintage classics". felix
Rec79		#7	[-]
(01/09/09 4:34 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I think older than 35 years is called vintage when it comes to musical instruments. I collect the original Star Wars actionfigures and the ones from 1977-1985 are called vintage. An old Nintendo 8 bit videogame and Amiga 500 computers are also vintage! Last Edited By: Rec79 01/09/09 4:38 AM. Edited 2 times.
mudpuppy55		#8	[-]
(01/09/09 9:23 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	VINTAGE=Anything as old, or older than me Necturus maculosus (A.K.A. mudpuppy) Chuck, Mi.
kydave		#9	[-]
(01/09/09 9:27 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The link David (Fingerstyle) provides above goes into much more detail, but since this is a Martin Forum, in Martin land, generally "vintage" is not age per se, but whether or not the guitar was 1969 (Brazilian ends) or older - generally speaking. As to other guitars, who cares, but apparently to a 20 year old kid selling a 1988 Epiphone on Craigslist, that is vintage. Kentucky Dave's Martins: 0-18 (1959); 00-28H (2006 Custom); 000-16R (1999 Special Edition); 0000-28H (1999); D-28 (1971) myspace.davetrabue and beargrasscreek Piraticus 13:7 , , <> ^^^
hogwldfltr		#10	[-]
(01/09/09 11:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Anything made in a way which they are no longer being made. 70s Martins would fall into the vintage category but not necessarilly for desirable reasons. *********** I've been known to play with the following: '71 D-18 : '04 D-18V : Backpacker : 000-28EC : '82 D-41 : '66 D-35 : '30 2-17 : '67 00-18C : '44 00-18 : '44 00-17 : LX-175th : '30s 0 Ukes: '20s 2-M Uke: Breedlove OM-M : Gibson C-0 Classic : '98 Martin D12-1 : '70 Guild F-112 : and a '98 Harley-Davidson FLTR Road Glide. Forum intro #992 *********** "What do you all look like?" Post #206
rforman15		#11	[-]
(01/09/09 11:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	1vin·tage Pronunciation: \ˈvin-tij\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English, probably alteration of vendage, from Anglo-French vendage, vendenge, from Latin vindemia grape-gathering, vintage, from vinum wine, grapes + demere to take off, from de- + emere to take - more at wine, redeem Date: 15th century 1 a (1): a season's yield of grapes or wine from a vineyard (2): wine ; especially : a usually superior wine all or most of which comes from a single year b: a collection of contemporaneous and similar persons or things : crop 2: the act or time of harvesting grapes or making wine 3 a: a period of origin or manufacture b: length of existence : age Source: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vintage
capobull		#12	[-]
(01/10/09 12:59 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Nothing newer than 1969 is vintage. My sentiments precisely.
hfs morgan		#13	[-]
(01/11/09 4:09 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi, Just found out i own a vintage guitar....never knew my 1962 Guild F20 Sunburst was classed as vintage. You learn something every day. Thanks...i love this forum. HFS M36 1988....non vintage.
Howard Klepper		#14	[-]
(01/11/09 8:48 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Being pre-1970 is a necessary condition for being "vintage." It is not a sufficient one.
Fingerstyle2		#15	[-]
(01/12/09 7:34 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This is what I said in the other thread on the topic. David My recommendation is to drop "vintage" as the important concept and think in terms of "collectible." Then think about what combination of rarity, materials, quality of construction, etc. would make a specific guitar more desirable and valuable (i.e., "collectible") than a similar instrument without that combination of attributes. By that standard, a 1967 BRW small-bridgeplate D-35 in original condition would be collectible. A 1971 D-35 (though well-beyond Stan Jay's alleged--and if true, silly--definition of "vintage" based on age [25 years]) would not be collectible. It might be a fine guitar, but it's not distinguished by its rarity, materials, or construction. My main point is that dealers and sellers will try to equate "vintage" with "collectible" but that is not always the case. The flipside is that there might be relatively young guitars (perhaps the Stills D's and 000's) that would be collectible without being vintage.
jscio		#16	[-]
(01/12/09 10:23 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't buy the pre-1970 distinction as the only definition for vintage. In 1970, 1969 guitars were not vintage. A 1969 D-18-S is vintage and a 1970 D-18-S isn't? A 1969 000-18 is vintage and a 1970 isn't? What about a Brazilian D28 from 1970; vintage or not? C'mon. There's a triple-0 45 from the 70's on the market going for 16K - in EIR. I spoke with Stan Jay at Mandolin Bros years ago. He uses twenty five years as the break point. That would make guitars prior to 1984 "vintage" now. Would they be as desirable as ones from an earlier decade? Probably not, but I leave that for the guitar weenies to dope slap each other around here on the forum.
Jim Burke		#17	[-]
(01/12/09 11:20 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	It means whatever people want it to mean. A 1969 brazillian D28 will sell for a lot more than a 1970 EIR D28, and for reasons of substance. A 1969 D18 should sell for around the same as 1970 D18 because, to my knowledge, there is no substantial difference. The term vintage can be useful but only in a limited way. It's really just a marketing term. We can all agree that steel string guitar from the 1930s is vintage. We'll go nuts over it if its a Martin D28, but pass on it if it's a cheap guitar made for Montgomery Wards (and not by Gibson). We can all agree that 1939 is vintage. We can all agree that 2009 is not vintage (yet). Where you put the line is up to you. I agree that 1969 is a decent place to start but it's a fuzzy line, not sharp.
soleless shoes		#18	[-]
(01/12/09 3:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In the timepiece industry, a watch is considered vintage if it was manufactured prior to the advent of quartz (battery) movements (`1970). Even though mechanical watches were still being manufactured during the Quartz hay days of the 1970s and 1980s, many traditional manufactures primarily in Switzerland and Germany faced an industry crisis forcing many of the traditional houses to close, stop or limit production of mechanical, or get bought up by conglomerates. The mechanical watch industry has since rebounded as many consumers once again appreciate the art of a fine timepiece. Although the complications of the movements developed today sometime meet or even exceed vintage pieces, they are very collectable just not vintage. Defining a vintage acoustic guitar seems to be very subjective. Is it possible that a certain manufacturing event occurred that shifted the guitar building from hand built to automated even though hand built guitars are still made today? If not, is Martin's use of EIR instead of Brazilian the largest single event? The quote above that suggests a difference between collectable and vintage makes sense to me. Defining the event is the challenge. Rich

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