Bridge Pin Dilemma, Setup?

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2ns4me	Bridge Pin Dilemma, Setup?	Lead	[-]
(10/11/08 1:54 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I know there are many of you who leave any Martin they buy completely Stock. I wish to do the same except where it affects playability and sound. I recently purchased a new Martin Standard Series Guitar which has a Bone Nut a Bone Saddle in a Belly Bridge and Black Plastic Bridge Pins with White Dots which stick up. According to the retailer this Guitar was setup prior to being shipped as his shop sets up every New Guitar that comes in from Martin. I would like to replace the Bridge Pins with Bone but I know they will stick up as well unless I purchased the proper Bridge Hole Reamer and take it slow. The other option is to have a professional do it but that will cost me almost as much or more as buying the proper Reamer and Bone Bridge Pins from Bob Colosi. I also considered buying a Bone End Pin and Strap Button (Or I could just use the strap hooking it up to the endpin and above the Nut) and installing those. What do you think? I have some Guitar Tech Experience and always err on the side of caution. Doing too little is always better than doing too much. Any opinions or ideas would be very welcome. Jeff It Is The Music That Really Matters...
jcheffy		#1	[-]
(10/11/08 2:50 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I purchased a reamer from Stewmac or LMI (can't remember which) a couple years ago and have installed new end and bridge pins in several of my Martins and on the guitars I've built. Search "reamer" in this forum area and you'll find a bunch of threads discussing the topic. Bob Colosi makes nice pins, bridges, nuts and end pins. I've purchased several sets of pins et al. Maury (maurysmusic.com) and Tim (dockii) also have really nice pins. Can't go wrong with any of them. Personally, I would do it myself. Like you said, spend the $ once on a good reamer and on the pins you want, and go slow to install. I'd also encourgage you to consider unslotted bridge pins. I just installed a set of those using the slotting saw from Stewmac to slot the bridge. I don't hear a great deal of difference, but the strings are definitely securely held. I will probably evolve to unslotted on all guitars over time. This is another topic you can find discussed in many threads here. Have fun!
dadthrash		#2	[-]
(10/11/08 2:59 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There are a couple of options here: Bridge Pins: Martins come with a size 2A (.220" under the skirt, 5* taper) and stick up quite a bit. You could order a Size 2C (.215" under the skirt, 5* taper) and they sit down just about right for me. Many people like to order the 2A's, and then ream the bridge pin holes for a much better fit overall. Whether you do it yourself or not, is completely up to you. I have never done it. I just buy 2C Bridge Pins. Strap Pin: Put it where Martin recommends....regardless of Material. MRT
J21M		#3	[-]
(10/11/08 3:06 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Some professionals do not have the proper 5 degree reamer designed for wood. I would ask. If I was not satisfied their answer then I would do the job myself. This is a good time to slot the holes and install unslotted pins. I like a strap pin installed on the treble side of the neck heel. Richard
Heptone		#4	[-]
(10/11/08 3:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have always bought new pins (2A's) from Bob Colosi, then sanded the pins in order to make them seat properly. Bob's pins come with a nice little note telling you how to do it, and if I recall correctly, it takes about an hour. ~ Greg ~ OM-28V ~ D-18VS Assorted Weber & Flatiron Mandos http://www.soundclick.com/bands/Heptone Last Edited By: Heptone 10/11/08 7:32 PM. Edited 1 times.
omeagerman		#5	[-]
(10/11/08 3:34 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The proper reamer does seem expensive, but if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing properly so I say get one: just pretend you never had the money in the first place and forget the cost. As you say yourself, the saving over paying someone else to do the job for you will cover it. I have several guitars so the outlay was easier for me to justify, but I've used it surprisingly often and been able to help out many others as well since I bit the bullet. Kev.
Bearclaw Dave		#6	[-]
(10/11/08 4:53 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I spent a lot of time reading technical how-to type threads here and pondering my ability to ream and slot, and read some more, and kept chanting I think I can, I think I can, and finally ordered a five-degree reamer from StewMac (and a small slotting saw and set of slotting files to boot). I practiced on an old beater and then graduated to several Martins. The procedure and process are quite straight forward, and, since I love to tinker, quite satisfying. Taking small, slow steps (or turns of the reamer, or strokes of the saw and files) is key. From my readings here, the consensus seems to be that reaming and slotting bridges to properly seat good pins (ordered from Red Sox fan Bob Colosi, of course) is a good post-production modification on Martins. As long as you don't have more than two thumbs and are comfortable around hand tools, this is well within the realm of a do-it-yourself job. I rationalized that the cost of purchasing the tools was = to or < than that of paying a tech, especially since I had several guitars. Plus, doing it myself made me feel as though I'm more intrinsically attached to my guitars, sort of like remodeling a house you've just bought to personalize it, to put your mark on it so to speak. Good luck, and Go Sox! Dave P.S. As I learned from previous threads before I started, it only takes a few twists of the wrists (not full turns!) to get the holes the right size. Twist and try it out with a pin, twist again and try it out again, etc. It's all in the turn of the screw (especially if you're a Henry James fan, and really, who isn't these days).
Mike1951		#7	[-]
(10/11/08 5:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	What dadthrash said. I always buy 2Cs from Maury. Why alter your new guitar when you can buy the perfect size bridge pin? Mike
omeagerman		#8	[-]
(10/11/08 6:16 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"Why alter your new guitar when you can buy the perfect size bridge pin?". Because the pins will still not be properly seated - they'll just sit lower in their holes. Plus, you can't contol the height at which they all sit relative to each other. Kev.
That One Guy		#9	[-]
(10/11/08 6:30 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	omeagerman wrote: "Why alter your new guitar when you can buy the perfect size bridge pin?". Because the pins will still not be properly seated - they'll just sit lower in their holes. Plus, you can't contol the height at which they all sit relative to each other. Kev. ...But do they rattle or cause any adverse effect on the tone of the guitar or stability/tuning of the strings? What's the consequence of using 2C pins? 2008 Martin HD-28 "Snap snap, grin grin, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more?" (Eric Idle)
omeagerman		#10	[-]
(10/11/08 7:02 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	You want to have the tapered pin-shafts as fat as possible so that they push the ball-ends of the strings further under the bridgeplate, rather than allow them to pull partway into the bottoms of the holes and chew up the bridgeplate over time. Making pins thinner either by sanding or by design is most unhelpful in this regard, as is leaving them unseated. This is also the reasoning behind the preference for unslotted pins. Kev. Last Edited By: omeagerman 10/11/08 7:48 PM. Edited 2 times.
2ns4me		#11	[-]
(10/11/08 9:31 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There is a wealth of information to be found backlogged here. I will do some reading here as well as at the Martin Site. I'm sure I'll find lot's of answers... I will probably do it myself. I will do it the right way from the beginning. I'll have to decide whether or not to go slotted pins or not. The unslotted sounds like a good idea as more pin the ball end is further under the Bridge Plate. Less Damage and more contact. Something I will have to investigate further. I will do some more reading using the Search Engine. That will answer my questions regarding Martin Strap Button Placement suggestions as well I am sure. Jeff It Is The Music That Really Matters... Last Edited By: 2ns4me 10/12/08 12:57 AM. Edited 3 times.
omeagerman		#12	[-]
(10/11/08 10:04 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Right on, Jeff! By the way, don't you do paragraphs? Someone.
2ns4me		#13	[-]
(10/12/08 1:02 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, normally I use paragraphs. I was thinking and typing and got lost in the moment. I tried to edit that long post three times and lost it somehow. It was far too long anyway... Sorry. Jeff It Is The Music That Really Matters...
Dave Baird		#14	[-]
(10/12/08 3:38 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I simply use the same emery boards that I use to keep my nails short, and gently thin down the bridge pins at the area where it is obvious that they are catching in the bridge holes. This doesn't affect the rest of the pin, hence no change to how they interact with the ball ends of the strings. Reaming out the bridge holes (to me) would result in a poorer fit for the bridge pins, and probably lead to bridge plate damage over time. JMHO. Dave Ain't it funny...how time slips away (Willie Nelson)
RogueBrit		#15	[-]
(10/12/08 5:44 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	As bearclaw Dave points out - you will be surprised at the effect very small amounts of wood removal have in the way the pins seat - its a feature of any taper-fitting situation. Take out the merest slivers initially until you feel confident. Just cleaning up the hole slightly is usually enough in my experience. I put strips of double sided tape onto a piece of thin card, roll slightly to instert in soundhole, to catch 'the bits' and avoid the 'upside down shake and hope' method of subsequent removal! Roger
soundwatts		#16	[-]
(10/12/08 7:29 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	has anyone reamed Micarta? is it safe or will it crack since it is not wood? 000C16RGTE Aura
omeagerman		#17	[-]
(10/12/08 7:57 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	No problem, Jeff - you're forgiven. Slotting the bridge instead of the pins is the optimum method. Dave, I can't agree that putting tapered pins into straight-sided holes makes for a better fit. The change to slotted pins was a retrograde step in my opinion for the reason given earlier. All the pin-fitting methods other than taper-reaming are fudges and simply make a bad situation worse. Roger, for catching the bits, it's easier just to lay out a soft yellow duster on the back of the guitar before you start. When you're done reaming, just fold it in on itself and lift it, bits and all, out of the soundhole. Kev. Last Edited By: omeagerman 10/12/08 8:17 AM. Edited 1 times.
Imapickn		#18	[-]
(10/12/08 9:00 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well said, omeagerman (kev) .. It's easy for folks to forget that those hole are parallel sided holes and not tapered... ima
oz osborne		#19	[-]
(10/12/08 9:49 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	soundwatts, i have reamed out three micarta bridges (including my son's 000C16RGTE Aura) with no issues whatsoever - just like wood, go slow - a couple turns at a time, test fit, one or two more turns, test fit, etc. -- there is generally no need to slot the micarta bridges as they are ramped and are designed to work with slotted bridge pins -- hth play on, oz
2ns4me		#20	[-]
(10/12/08 10:19 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I love to work on Guitars and this is my only Guitar right now. I am a little shocked as I am new to working on Martin Guitars and the problems they arrive with. I have to say for what a Standard Series Martin Guitar cost it is ridiculous how poorly they setup the whole Bridge Pin System on their Guitars. After a lot of reading this is where I am at: 1. Purchase unslotted Bone Bridge Pins from: Stew Mac ? Bob Colosi? Who else? 2. Purchase 5 Degree Reamer from Stew Mac. 3. Purchase Bridge Slotting Saw from Stew Mac. 4. Check fit of each new Pin and Ream as appropriate. 5. Use slotting saw to cut straight up and down at front of hole (perpendicular to Bridge Pin if it were in hole) remembering less is more. 6. Done? Hard to believe so much has to be done and more money has to be spent so Guitar Bridge Pin Setup is correct on an expensive Guitar! The poor guy or girl who buys a nice new Martin who does not have technical abilities has to pay someone else to do it and this sounds like at least a $100-$150 job or more depending on what Pins are used. I want to play this thing! If I do not do it myself I may have a local Tech/Luthier do the whole thing. I will have to really research a great Martin Tech/Approved Luthier to do it as I do not want to void my warranty. Jeff It Is The Music That Really Matters... Last Edited By: 2ns4me 10/15/08 3:29 PM. Edited 1 times.

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